head shape

boutiquegecko

New Member
Messages
1,028
Location
Seminole, Fl
I'm not sure where to post this. Has anyone noticed the difference in head shape from geckos about 10 years ago compared to the ones today? I'll try to get some pics if poss. Our origional male that I got about 10 yrs? ago and his parents are shorter in the snout between the eyes and nose tip. And his offspring are the same-I thought something was wrong with them. When I look at my bells and hypos that are only a few years old, they are longer or rather more pointy in the nose-same with thier babies. I'm wondering if our male is a diff subspecies or has the leo changed with outbreeding over the past decade. Can some of you look at pics of your leos from back then and compare to the "newer" ones of today and see if you notice nose shape difference? It's not real prominant, but it is noticeable.
 

Scott&Nikki

New Member
Messages
2,003
Location
DeKalb/Wheeling IL
Is it possible you have an African Fat Tail? I just got my first leo so I can't do any comparison. We have had discussions about the change in size of leos over the the years, but head size due to bone structure should not really change. Wait till someone a little more experienced can come alone, but my guess would be maybe an AFT.
 

BluGnat

Opus
Messages
579
Location
Westminster, Colorado
I think I know what you're referring to. My old boy, Jake (he'll be 13 this year), has a more rounded profile - like not only the distance from eye to nostril, but he's more rounded vertically, as well. I've had him since '94, and my next gecko purchase after that was a group of four SHTCT girls in the Spring of '05, and when we got them I noticed a difference. I kind of assumed it was a male/female thing - but since then I've had other males, too - and they're slightly different, as well. It's been in the back of my mind - but I thought it was just me.
 

Sandra

New Member
Messages
630
Location
Spain
Now that you mention it... It seems that my male (SHTCTB) has a slightly more stylized profile than my female (normal), that has a rounder face. But I don't think there's too much difference anyway...

geckoszs3.jpg
 

MichaelJ

CelebrityGeckos.Com
Messages
822
Location
Seminole, FL
My personal opinion would be that due to selective breeding and effort to get changes in morphs/mutations we may have as well changed the bone structure of the species it self. I'd imagine if any of us saw one of these guys in the wild we'd probably not recognize them. Like dingos and domesticated dogs through our passion for better colors and shapes we may have changed the domesticated animal as whole. Just my two cents. I'd want to see what Ron Tremper has to say on it. I would send him a post an email on his site. www.leopardgeckos.com .
 

Scott&Nikki

New Member
Messages
2,003
Location
DeKalb/Wheeling IL
MichaelJ said:
My personal opinion would be that due to selective breeding and effort to get changes in morphs/mutations we may have as well changed the bone structure of the species it self. I'd imagine if any of us saw one of these guys in the wild we'd probably not recognize them. Like dingos and domesticated dogs through our passion for better colors and shapes we may have changed the domesticated animal as whole. Just my two cents. I'd want to see what Ron Tremper has to say on it. I would send him a post an email on his site. www.leopardgeckos.com .


I agree with you on that except about not recognizing them in the wild. In the short time I have been researching leos I have seen wild caught leos, as I'm sure others have too. They look the same, other than being darker, obviously less colorful, and usually much skinnier.
 

Stitch

New Member
Messages
1,277
Location
Kaua'i, Hawaii
I don't know if I'm off track but are you all comparing male to male and female to female?

Remember that the males head is broader then a females, so that may be the shape difference some of you are seeing. I can also imagine breeding efforts could have slightly altering the shape of todays leo's as when compared to the geckos of old.
 

Kotsay1414

You feed 'em we breed 'em
Messages
1,663
Location
Tualatin, OR
Stitch said:
I don't know if I'm off track but are you all comparing male to male and female to female?

Remember that the males head is broader then a females, so that may be the shape difference some of you are seeing. I can also imagine breeding efforts could have slightly altering the shape of todays leo's as when compared to the geckos of old.
Here is my 10 yearold female...
tubby_thumb.jpg
 

boutiquegecko

New Member
Messages
1,028
Location
Seminole, Fl
Ok mine seem to be a lot like Kostay's. The first 2 pics are the male and then his daughter and she has the same very blunt nose. You can definately see how pointy the last albino male's is in the last pic. That's what the rest of my leos noses/heads are like-pointy/slim. I suppose it could be a change due to inbreeding/outbreeding. I'm glad to see others noticed it too, I'm not the only crazy one staring at gecko heads. Oh, sorry I know these pics will be big, I don't know how to make them small.
 

GeckoStud

Fatty Fatty Boomballaty
Messages
2,351
Location
Western PA
I get what your saying, my first leo that I got was a normal and she has a shorter snout too, and her eyes seem... I don't know... rounder? And her daughter is the same exact way, in fact when she was a little smaller I thought she had an ocular deformity, but she acts just fine. I'll try to get some pics of it.
 

LeosForLess

New Member
Messages
1,305
I have always noticed with with geckos like Albeys SHTCTB's having a shorter snout. I think the the parent of the first of that morph may have somthing to do with it?
 

GeckoStud

Fatty Fatty Boomballaty
Messages
2,351
Location
Western PA
I couldn't get a good example of mom, but I did find a good pic of her daughter's schnoz. And a comparison pic to a jungle I picked up from Bruckman at a local show.
 
L

LadyGecko

Guest
I have noticed a definite elongation of the heads of many different morphs of Leos produced in recent years
I agree that as there are more morphs created-there are definite body and head shape/size changes in both males and females
Thanks for bring this up-I was beginning to wonder if I was seeing things that weren't there-lol
Sandy
 

boutiquegecko

New Member
Messages
1,028
Location
Seminole, Fl
Paul one of my hypos has a snub nose too, she's the only other one in my group like that. I wonder what would prove dominant. Or if some morphs happen to have the snub nose more than others.
 

IMacBevan

Member
Messages
78
Location
Sourthern California
It could be that we are seeing some differences due to interbreeding if subspecies as well. After all there have to be some phenotypical differences between the subspecies in order to differentiate them each other. Most herpetoculturalists don't worry about breeding true to the subspecific level, so those traits can get intermixed.

I've got a high yellow jungle male that has the broadest head I have seen in leopard gecko. His head shape almost looks like that of a rattlesnake or cottonmouth. When I get a chance I'll post some pictures (assuming I can get him to sit still that long....)
 

Baysidegeckos

Baysidegeckos.com
Messages
1,173
Location
Largo, FL
You can put it like this, Some geckos snout or nose is a little longer and some are shorter i noticed, but not just in the old ones but in babies too. Some of my 06 Babies had longer snouts than others, or pointier noses. No geckos are the same in body shape, head shape, eyes, color ect....
I noticed it earlier last year!
 

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