Most Humane Culling Procedure?

tlbowling

Geck~OCD
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1,758
Location
NJ
Drwall mud trowel and then hose it off. In the early stage I put them in a ziplock then did it so it was right to the trash but now I put them into them compost bin.
YUK...I think I'd opt for feeding it/ them to my beardie, or freezer. I hope I never have to do either, but when the time comes...those would be my 2 choices.
 

Dog Shrink

Lost in the Lizard World
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2,799
Location
NW PA.
thanks for the info. ive decided on CO2 then freezer should hte need ever arise

i really hope it doesnt - terrible thing to have to do

thanks guys!
I dont see how suffocating is a humane method of culling. Freezing to me sounds much more humane. The aminal gets cold, falls asleep, then dies versus gasping for breath, possibly NOT suffocating, then having to freeze it anyway? too many "what if's" there for me. When we breed our rabbits, if we have to cull, we've used the gassing method, some go peacefully, others scream to high heaven. To me that is an indicator that method is not consistant nor humane, and that the animal is in distress. Usually our preferred method now is either a hammer handle to the base of the head where it joins the spine, an overdose of insulin (since my hubby is type 1 diabetic we have it readily available) which puts them right to sleep then they pass peacefully, or I give them to my friend who has a 12 foot red tailed boa. Honestly I would not feel comfortable gassing a herp who has such a low oxygen requirement that co2 may take a LONG time to pts.
 

Digby Rigby

Member
Messages
118
Location
California
Quick Kill

Nature isnt cruel. Look at predators during the hunt. Look how animals are killed in such ways. Freezing to death is not a good way to die. Pain is immaterial if death is instantaeneous. My answer varies based on 2 scenarios:
1. Is the animal free of diseases and pathogens. I define this as problems not contagious or caused by other life forms. As an example birth defects or kinked spines.

2. Is the animal diseased?

If the animal falls under category 1 I would feed it off. If the aimal is in category 2 then a swift crushing blow to te head. Death is then instantaeneous and pain is immaterial at that point. Freezing takes a lot more time and causes discomfort so does CO2
 

Eureka

New Member
Messages
107
I wanted to share this information for those that cull and may be interested.
According to the AVMA (American Veterinary Medical Association), freezing is considered inappropriate and inhumane.

http://www.avma.org/issues/animal_welfare/euthanasia.pdf

"Cooling—It has been suggested that, when using physical methods of euthanasia in ectothermic species, cooling to 4 C will decrease metabolism and facilitate handling, but there is no evidence that whole body cooling reduces pain or is clinically efficacious. (206) Local cooling in frogs does reduce nociception, and this may be partly opioid mediated. (207) Immobilization of reptiles by cooling is considered inappropriate and inhumane even if combined with other physical or chemical methods of euthanasia. Snakes and turtles, immobilized by cooling, have been killed by subsequent freezing. This method is not recommended. (13) Formation of ice crystals on the skin and in tissues of an animal may cause pain or distress. Quick freezing of deeply anesthetized animals is acceptable." (208)

"Rapid freezing - Rapid freezing as a sole means of euthanasia is not considered to be humane. If used, animals should be anesthetized prior to freezing."

Appropriate means of euthanasia for reptiles according to the AVMA:

Reptiles-
Barbiturates, inhalant anesthetics (in appropriate species), CO2 (in appropriate species), Penetrating captive bolt, gunshot, decapitation and pithing, stunning and decapitation
 
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Keith N

New Member
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774
Location
Lottsburg, VA.
Smaller species I still perfer to crush them. To me it is instant as opposed to some other methods. As we are expanding into some larger species we will just feed them out.
 

latshki

Breeder in the making
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485
Location
PEI Canada
to me freezing is terrible, I don't know if you have been stuck out in the cold or what happens then you may reconsider
first your fingers and toes start to sting and tingle, and as they go it feels like your hand is on fire, then it feels like its inside your arm as crystals form in your blood which is extremely painful, then breathing gets hard, you start too panic and it feels like there are cinder block on your chest and your arms and legs burn

I have experience frost bite on my hands and it is not fun, it is very painful and my brother has almost died from exposure and has almost no feeling in his hands
my brother is a tough guy but when it happened you can tell he was in some serious pain

another point I can say is that it takes a while, at the petstore I worked at my boss had to cull some mice, it doesn't bother me but when I looked in the freezer 4 hours later all of the mice were still alive and squeling, it freaked me out

so in my eyes CO2, decapitation, and feeding are best

has anyone thought about drowning, my grandfather always dispatched vermin that way and said it was painless
 

Kristi23

Ghoulish Geckos
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16,181
Location
IL
I put them in the fridge first until they are asleep. After that, they go in the freezer. I've never seen one change position going from one to the other. I don't think they even wake up.
 

Northstar Herp

Rhacs and Uros, oh boy!!!
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1,358
Location
Plaistow, NH
Remember that the topic is "most humane" procedure, not which one is easiest or most palatable for us.

So far, I think Keith's cinderblock method sounds the most humane. I've got a hatchling that isn't eating, so I'm really entertaining the idea seriously now.
 

M_surinamensis

Shillelagh Law
Messages
1,166
Remember that the topic is "most humane" procedure, not which one is easiest or most palatable for us.
The problem there is that we're thinking in terms of personal pain while trying to decide what is humane for a species that is extremely different from us- in terms of what it senses and how it processes that information and in terms of the physiology and how they will respond to different methods.

Posts like the "I got frostbite once and it was horrible." one a couple above this are well intentioned but they completely fail to take into account the differences between a large, warm blooded species that is sentient and a small, ectothermic species that is not. The various methods that have been discussed will have a very different result and provoke a different experience, based on the ways that those two groups have different physical, metabolic and cognitive responses to the conditions.

So it ends up being a question of most palatable for us, because few of the participants are able to make a distinction between what they would feel if they were being euthanized using a given method and what the animal actually experiences.
 

goReptiles

New Member
Messages
2,639
Location
Georgia
Freezer. They essentially go into hybernation, then death. They dont feel anything. Reptiles aren't like mammals, so cold doesnt hurt, but puts them into a sleep.
 

Pokersnake

Member
Messages
252
Location
Chicagoland IL
I have been in the fish hobby for a few years now and have had to make the decision to euthanize a few from my collection. Mostly because I kept highly aggressive fish like cichlids who just love to beat the tar out of each other. It seems that the favored method for fish hobbyists is the blender method. That is to take said ill fish and immerse it in water in the blender and press "Frappé" Like the aforementioned cinder block method, the kill is instant. The animal feels the least amount of pain and the brain and spine are destroyed.

Now, this doesn't work on larger species like Oscars or probably any sizable lizards or snakes, but it could be an option for smaller species. Though, I would think the water would distress the lizard far more than anything else.
 

JordanAng420

New Member
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3,280
Location
Miami, FL
I have been in the fish hobby for a few years now and have had to make the decision to euthanize a few from my collection. Mostly because I kept highly aggressive fish like cichlids who just love to beat the tar out of each other. It seems that the favored method for fish hobbyists is the blender method. That is to take said ill fish and immerse it in water in the blender and press "Frappé" Like the aforementioned cinder block method, the kill is instant. The animal feels the least amount of pain and the brain and spine are destroyed.

Now, this doesn't work on larger species like Oscars or probably any sizable lizards or snakes, but it could be an option for smaller species. Though, I would think the water would distress the lizard far more than anything else.
OMG...Now i've seen and heard of a lot of ways to kill an animal...but OMG.
 

M_surinamensis

Shillelagh Law
Messages
1,166
It seems that the favored method for fish hobbyists is the blender method.
... what in the hell kind of aquarium hobbyists are you talking to about this?

Whoever they are, find some new ones. 'cause that is a load of utter crap. It is not a favored method, it is not common- it is the kind of sensational attention seeking bullshit done by jackasses with a youtube account and inattentive parents.
 

Pokersnake

Member
Messages
252
Location
Chicagoland IL
... what in the hell kind of aquarium hobbyists are you talking to about this?

Whoever they are, find some new ones. 'cause that is a load of utter crap. It is not a favored method, it is not common- it is the kind of sensational attention seeking bullshit done by jackasses with a youtube account and inattentive parents.
*shrugs*

It's just info that I kept running into online when looking into the topic. I've never a) had a blender to do such a thing in b) felt the urge to destroy said blender or c) have the want to clean fish slurry out of a blender. I've only used the freezer to kill a fish, and at the point where I had to make that decision, the fish was doomed already.
 

Gregg M

Registered Member
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3,055
Location
The Rotten Apple NYC
Feeding off is my method... It is a win win situation in my opinion... The suffering animal no longer suffers and the animal it is fed off to gets a bit of variety in its diet... We have dwarf monitors that will readily eat anything and we have white throats that are pretty much a natural garbage disposal...

I use to have the opinion that freezing is not a good option... However, it is not as bad as some think it is and I do not buy into what is stated by the AVMA, especially when it comes to reptiles....

The refridgerator to freezer method is more species dependant though in my opinion... For instance, North American species, especially colubrids can withstand cold temperatures... I have brumated colubrids in temps in the 40's... While very slow, they are still very much active... Average refridgerator temp will not be enough to totally shut them down... Putting them directly in the freezer will shorten the time from living to dead...

I think the freezer method is easier for people to do... It is much easier to place something in a freezer, shut the door, and to come back 25 minutes later to find a fully frozen reptile...

Most of the methods mentioned are as humane as you can get (not so sure about the blender method though) when it comes to culling reptiles...

Culling is needed when it comes to breeding healthy stock... Some will not agree but I feel ANY deformed hatchling, no matter how minor, should be culled... It does not matter if it is thought to be genetic or not... We have already taken natural selection away by breeding in captivity, there is no need to ruin genetic quality any more by selling off misfit offspring as "pets only"...

Anything I sell is breeding quality... Anything produced that is not something I would consider breeding is quickly culled... For the record, my decision to cull or not to cull is NOT based on pattern or coloration or how "pretty" the hatchling is... I am talking overall health and condition...
 
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M_surinamensis

Shillelagh Law
Messages
1,166
I use to have the opinion that freezing is not a good option... However, it is not as bad as some think it is and I do not buy into what is stated by the AVMA, especially when it comes to reptiles....
I have a lot of opinions on the subject myself, mostly dealing with that pain is and what pain means. I am sure you and a few others would get it, but most pet owners would find my rather clinical analysis distasteful.
 
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