Normal Enigmas for $15????????

[Golden Gate Geckos]

a quick way to make money and move them to make more space

Which is in line with what I was saying earlier in this thread about overproducing animals and then flooding the market with them at less than wholesale prices.

This is one of the reasons many people hate a particular 'large chain discount retail store' that is driving other competitors out of business because they cannot compete or survive in the market selling at those discount prices.

 

[Zynx_Keekeio]

dang I need to go to a show! lol XD J/k j/k but no seriously I don't buy tons of geckos and don't plan to so I don't see the harm in buying a gecko for whatever price it is at if I really and genuinely like it
Of course I understand what that does to you all but seriously some of your guys prices are outrages especially when you add on the shipping

Just saying

 

[Halley]

seriously some of your guys prices are outrages especially when you add on the shipping

:main_laugh: I thought this before I started breeding as well. Breed them, put the work, the time, the money, and the effort into it, and they don’t seem that outrages after all.

 

[Sunrise Reptile]

OK, it seems that some of our newer members (no offense, I'm even still learning) aren't looking at all the angles. So I feel it, at least to some degree, my responsibility to just throw out the bait and hope I get a nibble. So...

If you're seriously considering a purchase from someone making a similar offer one day, and feel the need to search for some logic in why this person may be doing this, consider this...

It only takes one gecko, with the early stages of Crypto (if you don't know what this is, do a site search on the word), to infect your ENTIRE collection. A cross contamination can happen easier than you may think.

So if you purchase a gecko under similar circumstances, just keep in mind the old adage "you get what you pay for".

I hope the newer members take some of this to heart. There's more reasons not to buy from somebody like this than there are reasons to buy.

 

[LeapinLizards]

I have to agree whole heartedly with Halley. When I had one gecko, I would "dream" shop around and was absolutely amazed at what new morphs were going for. Now that I have 6, soon to have 10, I can completely understand! The time and effort it takes just with my TINY number (compared to the 100s breeders have) has opened my eyes.

IMHO, it all comes down to breeding what you NEED, or what the market can handle. Do not breed a pair just for a couple babies, you know very well you'll get more than one or two eggs. The $15 enigmas I can imagine were "bi products" of a project that they kept a few from, and sold the rest off incredibly cheap to just get rid of them. It's not fair to other breeders, who work their butts off to produce healthy, well balanced, and gorgeous geckos.

I cannot say I would not be tempted to buy one, but in the end, I would feel guilty, having made friends with quite a few of our amazing breeders out there. I would much rather support an ETHICAL breeder.

 

[fallen_angel]

Of course I understand what that does to you all but seriously some of your guys prices are outrages especially when you add on the shipping

Just saying

Most breeders charge $50 for shipping and actually have to pay $70 or more, so they are losing money on the costs as it is (and this doesn't even include the costs for insulated boxes, heat packs, etc.) It might seem outrageous to you, but you are actually paying less than what it truly costs the breeder.

 

[Nigel4less]

Lets try not to get off Topic, but for the most part. Newer people to the hobby are the generally the ones sucked into this(Not that I`m calling anyone out). But newer people to the hobby don't seem to realize how much time and money we put into these animals. Ofcourse everyone wants a good deal, but generally when a deal seems to good to be true, it generally is.

 

[thegeckoguy]

I honestly dont know what id do in that situation...i mean i like looking for good quality animals at prices i can afford, but 15 for one of the most expensive morphs out there? I do find that a bit odd...

 

[Zynx_Keekeio]

Yeah I do see what you guys me, still like I said If i liked a gecko I don't care how much it is. I wouldn't buy one just because it was cheap I would genuinly have to love the pattern

 

[Gecko Euphoria]

Well said, theres always a catch, the other saying if it sounds to good to be true then "then it probably is" somethings not right. Why would you buy an enigma for $15 anyway, unless it was for a pet, I'd never breed an animal that I had no clue the genetics, these animals could also have terrible genetics with say deformities and when some other unsuspecting soul breeds em and gets some major deformity and sells them because they are so clueless and it goes on and on. Personally I think if you've never had more than 10 geckos it still probably isn't as clear as it is for some onewith 200+ geckos, which I have and it takes me hours every day takeing care off them and I've spent 10's of thousands of dollars on my collection and on the genetics and supplies to offer the Highest class animals I can possibly offer compared to someone like this person selling these enigmas which are probably sub par, This is where it becomes un ethical and goes to what marcia said about the maket getting flooded, especially if its getting flooded with below par morphs that any body can just walk up and buy like a stick of gum, and not know what they've got breed it and sell something as something it may not be, and something they do not understand, the enigma is definatly worth every dime that breeders ask for them It makes me wonder if the last post before this where breeders are accused of outragiuose prices if that person has or has ever seen a oustanding enigma, I will tell you that like this person in this post i'm replying to said you get what you pay for, and I can honestly tell you that those morphs that are so expensive are definatly worth there weight in gold they are stunning and have alot of potential. Take the Nova for instance by far one of the most amazing animals around, its taken years and years of hard work breeding many times and getting the right genes in each morph to get these thing which we have seen like the enigmas, Raptors and other high dollar stuff, That if you don;t understand the sacrifice and dedication that has gone into breeding these animals then you probably have no buisiness breeding them any way, in my opinion, I'd consider the lack of knowledge as bad as the clown who this whole thread is about. Only my opinion I totally ramble but it really just makes me so frustrated that people just have no clue, so the thread in which i'm replying to is totally right couldn't have said it better my self, and Jeremy your my hero for haveing the will power to just say no you are definatly a smart guy and what you did by not telling the customers the morph was the right thing to do . Hope I dont offend any one I just have alot of feelings about this. Its my life and honestly its not about money for me its just the whole prin ciple of this situation that urks me its the rights of all my fellow breeders to that this gets to me," we are all in this together, its our passions and lives and we work hard for our animals and creating masterpieces of art which people can enjoy, and when someone goes and undercuts every one its not the money its the whole sentimental value of these morphs that is compramised, and thats what is really sad", Thanks for reading and sorry if this thread offends anyone not my intention just want to help the enigma or any other morph keep its integrity and beauty, so thanks for reading,

Adam

OK, it seems that some of our newer members (no offense, I'm even still learning) aren't looking at all the angles. So I feel it, at least to some degree, my responsibility to just throw out the bait and hope I get a nibble. So...

If you're seriously considering a purchase from someone making a similar offer one day, and feel the need to search for some logic in why this person may be doing this, consider this...

It only takes one gecko, with the early stages of Crypto (if you don't know what this is, do a site search on the word), to infect your ENTIRE collection. A cross contamination can happen easier than you may think.

So if you purchase a gecko under similar circumstances, just keep in mind the old adage "you get what you pay for".

I hope the newer members take some of this to heart. There's more reasons not to buy from somebody like this than there are reasons to buy.

 

[Gecko Euphoria]

also well said I think this person has no clue what its all about and what goes into breeding and shipping an animal,

Most breeders charge $50 for shipping and actually have to pay $70 or more, so they are losing money on the costs as it is (and this doesn't even include the costs for insulated boxes, heat packs, etc.) It might seem outrageous to you, but you are actually paying less than what it truly costs the breeder.

 

[bohannbj]

Bottom line is that not all geckos are created equally, even if they are in the same morph. I think the best example of this is a simple tangerine. There are tangs and then there are hi-yellows; not to mention some have nice carrot-tails and some are "if you squint your eyes, tilt your head, and look through a magnifying glass you can see some orange." If you want to have nice qualities in your hatchlings, then you need to buy nice breeders.

 

[Sunshine State Exotics]

At this past Tampa show, there was a wholesaler their that told me... I think Miami Mike too... that he gets enigmas for $6 each. I believe him too. However, I've seen his animals. I would NEVER buy from him!

I generally don't sell normals for under $35. By the time an animal is to the size I like to sell them at, I've got way more than this into them with food and care.

 

[THE WHISPERER]

I,d have to sarcasticly say, If I had a top morph gecko(and lots of them) that had genetic problems,deseases,or some other problem that could be detrimental to my collection, and I didn't care about the customer or their collection I'd probably sell them for less than what it cost to raise them too.

It's ok to be a frugal shopper, but lets be smart shoppers. Those of you who have ever bought batteries at the 99cent store and put them in your walkman and only listen to four songs before they died know what I'm talking about.

If they're selling them for a fraction of the cost there's probably a reason why, there could be something wrong with one of them or all of them. If your willing to take that chance, I'm sorry.

 

[snared99]

I,d have to sarcasticly say, If I had a top morph gecko(and lots of them) that had genetic problems,deseases,or some other problem that could be detrimental to my collection, and I didn't care about the customer or their collection I'd probably sell them for less than what it cost to raise them too.

It's ok to be a frugal shopper, but lets be smart shoppers. Those of you who have ever bought batteries at the 99cent store and put them in your walkman and only listen to four songs before they died know what I'm talking about.

If they're selling them for a fraction of the cost there's probably a reason why, there could be something wrong with one of them or all of them. If your willing to take that chance, I'm sorry.

I dont think this statement is quite right. Just because someone out there is selling these enigmas dirt cheap, that does not mean they are diseased. I agree more with way too many were produced and swamped the market. You can buy a $5 gecko or a $3000 gecko and they can equally be diseased or have genetic problems.
I think one, when purchasing has to look at many aspects, and one of them is NOT how much money can they make breeding geckos. Alot comes into play here, obviously the economy is not perfect so who is spending $1000's on geckos?? Not me. And also this is a morph that can easily swamp the market, and i beleive it has. BUt the important thing is- Beautiful enigmas are still selling for a valued price.
This is just my 2 cents, I am NOT in ANY way endorsing this $15 sale of enigmas. Just wanted to put a different spin on things.

 

[LizMarie]

This topic is very interesting but I'm wondering if these $15 are even really enigmas? A lot of people like to mislabel things so they can sell. I can try to understand where serious collectors and breeders are coming from but as a buyer that's looking for a interesting pet I'd probably hop on over and purchase one for $15 if it didn't have any visual physical defects

 

[miamimike]

Just wanted to make a quick comment about what Larry said about the Tampa show....
Larry, you may have mis-understood what I was saying to you there....There was a "wholesaler" that came up to my table and said that I was WAAAAAAAY too expensive on my enigmas....he told me he could get them from a breeder he knew for $6 a piece.....I told him: "SURE you can man...."
I guess you never know though....but I have a feeling he just might have been trying to get me to drop my prices HUGE on a few .....
Needless to say....he got NONE of my animals.

 

[THE WHISPERER]

I dont think this statement is quite right. Just because someone out there is selling these enigmas dirt cheap, that does not mean they are diseased. I agree more with way too many were produced and swamped the market. You can buy a $5 gecko or a $3000 gecko and they can equally be diseased or have genetic problems.
I think one, when purchasing has to look at many aspects, and one of them is NOT how much money can they make breeding geckos. Alot comes into play here, obviously the economy is not perfect so who is spending $1000's on geckos?? Not me. And also this is a morph that can easily swamp the market, and i beleive it has. BUt the important thing is- Beautiful enigmas are still selling for a valued price.
This is just my 2 cents, I am NOT in ANY way endorsing this $15 sale of enigmas. Just wanted to put a different spin on things.

I didn't mean for my previous post to be taken this serious, that's why I started off saying I was being sarcastic. I also didn't mean for anyone to think I was saying they're ALL diseased, that's why I said one OR all COULD have something wrong. All I was trying to do is put some awareness in the eye of the buyers who might be blinded by getting high end morphs for dirt cheap. Sorry if I offended anyone, my intentions were to help. My two cents...

 

[Sunshine State Exotics]

Just wanted to make a quick comment about what Larry said about the Tampa show....
Larry, you may have mis-understood what I was saying to you there....There was a "wholesaler" that came up to my table and said that I was WAAAAAAAY too expensive on my enigmas....he told me he could get them from a breeder he knew for $6 a piece.....I told him: "SURE you can man...."
I guess you never know though....but I have a feeling he just might have been trying to get me to drop my prices HUGE on a few .....
Needless to say....he got NONE of my animals.

That's what I'm saying. He told me he could get them for $6 each in lots. He wanted to buy some of my animals at the end of the show. However, I turned him down. This guy is always at the shows trying to pull this though.

 

[bohannbj]

Mike, I agree with that guy. Your Nova male is way too expensive, and if I may say so, I think you should drop the price drastically and sell it to me. It's only the nicest one I have ever seen. By the way, those AFT's are doing great.
Thanks,
Brent