Purchased chameleon @ show, DIED on way home?

tlbowling

Geck~OCD
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1,758
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NJ
Yes, several large drilled air holes in the side of the container.

I joined the chameleon forum and am getting great advice from there as well, and hope to be able to do a swap for a new one sometime this week.
A "swap"? You mean they want the dead one back?!

I'm part of the chameleon forum too, just joined b/c I'd love to get a panther chameleon one of these days :)
I have the same user name over there, look me up and friend me :)
 

T-ReXx

Uroplatus Fanatic
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1,745
Location
Buffalo, NY
Sorry you had a bad experience and glad they agreed to replace the animal.

Just so you don't get the wrong idea about the seller I would point out that like Seamus said Chameleons are RIDICULOUSLY delicate animals. They will drop dead for an assortment of reasons, and stress affects them physically in ways and to a degree that most other reptiles have resistance to. Veileds are known to be hardy chameleons yes, but that is relative to other chameleon species, not to reptiles as a whole. As a whole I'd say just about every other type of reptile is "hardier" than a cham. I've seen quite a few arrive DOA in shipments simply from the stress of being shipped, and these were animals packed properly. Chameleons unfortunately die very easily. I hope things work out with the new one.
 

kathryn

New Member
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33
Location
New Jersey
A "swap"? You mean they want the dead one back?!

I'm part of the chameleon forum too, just joined b/c I'd love to get a panther chameleon one of these days :)
I have the same user name over there, look me up and friend me :)
Well, just going by the general rule that most places want the body returned for various reasons. The pet store I work at requires any animals that die shortly after purchase (doesn't happen much other than fish) be returned for an exchange. So, I just put him in the fridge just incase this seller requires it.


I'll find ya over there :main_thumbsup:
 

fl_orchidslave

New Member
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4,074
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St. Augustine, FL
About a year ago I was upgrading my veiled's cage and put him in an opaque lidded tub on the floor, with a branch inside. My cat snuck over to peek at him. Stuck his nose up to the tub. Cham freaked totally out. He turned completely black and I mean instantly. I thought he was going to die! He recovered, but that's how easy it is to stress them. Future holding place was a cardboard box that he could not see out of.
 

fl_orchidslave

New Member
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4,074
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St. Augustine, FL
Well, just going by the general rule that most places want the body returned for various reasons. The pet store I work at requires any animals that die shortly after purchase (doesn't happen much other than fish) be returned for an exchange. So, I just put him in the fridge just incase this seller requires it.


I'll find ya over there :main_thumbsup:

The dead one is offered as proof that their (the seller's) animal did indeed die as the buyer stated. It's a standard deal as part of a replacement warranty on live animals. Unfortunately, in the past shady buyers have taken advantage by trying to get another new animal out of the deal. It's good that you saved it Kathryn, they may ask for it, and you are prepared. Good luck with your new guy :)
 

kathryn

New Member
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33
Location
New Jersey
Welp, I heard back from them Monday via email, replied.. nothing... called them a bit ago, guy said he was swamped with shows all week. Wasn't quite as professional as I would have liked, but seemed genuine. Said he would be coming back from a show in Maryland this weekend, and he will have to cross through where I live to come home anyways, so I told him to call me anytime Sunday and I will meet him off one of the major highways nearby. Hope he keeps his word. Will post pics when (if) I get a new guy :) I had a shelf installed and did a custom set up for the reptarium and bought chameleon safe plants for inside, so I better freaking get a new one :D
 

tlbowling

Geck~OCD
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1,758
Location
NJ
Welp, I heard back from them Monday via email, replied.. nothing... called them a bit ago, guy said he was swamped with shows all week. Wasn't quite as professional as I would have liked, but seemed genuine. Said he would be coming back from a show in Maryland this weekend, and he will have to cross through where I live to come home anyways, so I told him to call me anytime Sunday and I will meet him off one of the major highways nearby. Hope he keeps his word. Will post pics when (if) I get a new guy :) I had a shelf installed and did a custom set up for the reptarium and bought chameleon safe plants for inside, so I better freaking get a new one :D
I wonder how (in general, not this particular seller) all these animals are kept, going from show to show, to show? Do the sellers/ breeders take them back to a hotel with them every night or do the animals have to stay in their containers that are on the show table all weekend? That has to be very stressful in itself! How do shows work?
 

kathryn

New Member
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33
Location
New Jersey
I wonder how (in general, not this particular seller) all these animals are kept, going from show to show, to show? Do the sellers/ breeders take them back to a hotel with them every night or do the animals have to stay in their containers that are on the show table all weekend? That has to be very stressful in itself! How do shows work?
I'm not entirely sure how it works, as the only people I know well enough to ask only do local shows. I'm positive they don't leave them out overnight though! Most shows I go to are only one day things, so at the end of the day they pack up and go home. The one I went to was a weekend thing, but I would assume they have everything either set up in the hotel room or in a trailer.
 

Vegas Chad

Tiki Tiki Reptiles
Messages
54
Location
Henderson, Nv
Sorry you had a bad experience and glad they agreed to replace the animal.

Just so you don't get the wrong idea about the seller I would point out that like Seamus said Chameleons are RIDICULOUSLY delicate animals. They will drop dead for an assortment of reasons, and stress affects them physically in ways and to a degree that most other reptiles have resistance to. Veileds are known to be hardy chameleons yes, but that is relative to other chameleon species, not to reptiles as a whole. As a whole I'd say just about every other type of reptile is "hardier" than a cham. I've seen quite a few arrive DOA in shipments simply from the stress of being shipped, and these were animals packed properly. Chameleons unfortunately die very easily. I hope things work out with the new one.
This is simply not true. Yes they are more difficult to care for than most reptiles however people saying things like this only perpetuate the stigma that they have. I have had harder time breeding uroplatus and various frog types for example than keeping and breeding my chameleons. I had a baby chameleon go MIA during its shipment for quite some time this winter and showed up alive much to my surprise. They are just as hardy as any other reptile if you meet their needs and buy a healthy animal, if you have had them just drop dead then you were doing something wrong.

The chameleon that this person purchased should have not simply dropped dead regardless of its head getting hit inside of a cup; something else was the matter with it. In this case the cost should be refunded or a replacement given.
 

M_surinamensis

Shillelagh Law
Messages
1,166
They are just as hardy as any other reptile
Any other reptile? Man, I'm glad you told me. I've got these great lakes garter snakes that I have just kept at room temperature for years now, not even bothering with a thermometer because the temperature of the house was always within the acceptable range for the species. No lighting, no heating, no special ventilation beyond the slim gap around the top edge of their tub. I'm excited by the prospect of keeping chameleons with just as much ease and casual inattention. Clean some poop and toss in whatever feeders I have sitting around that look about the right size (worms, insects, rodents, fish, frogs, salamanders, fish eggs), chameleon keeping is way simpler than I thought.

I really hope you haven't got your head up your ass, I'll feel bad about it if my new chameleons prove to be substantially more delicate than any other reptile and fall over dead.

if you meet their needs
Like specifically defined ranges for temperature and humidity, specific UV exposure, balanced and selected diets and avoiding stressful stimulus? And the needs of one species might be more narrowly or broadly defined than the needs of another species? And a species that has a relatively narrow range of conditions that are ideal for their health which experiences more rapid deterioration if their needs aren't met might be considered more delicate?

if you have had them just drop dead then you were doing something wrong.
Damn, why didn't anyone else think of that?! If only someone had already suggested that poorly regulated conditions during transit might have led to an acute issue, and then some other people gave supporting details after opening their post referencing that first one.

In this case the cost should be refunded or a replacement given.
Yeah! And if I buy an animal and then take it into the parking lot and step on it so it dies, I should get my money back too! Because buyers have no responsibility, ever, under any circumstances! Dealers are the devil and are always at fault, 100% of the time, no matter what!
 

Vegas Chad

Tiki Tiki Reptiles
Messages
54
Location
Henderson, Nv
I read the first sentence of your post and that was enough for me.

The appropriate response to you whole post based on that sentence is simple; don’t be a dumb ass.
 

M_surinamensis

Shillelagh Law
Messages
1,166
The appropriate response to you whole post based on that sentence is simple; don’t be a dumb ass.
Right back at'cha, champ. Although I'd categorize my response as being more smart-ass than dumbass. Yours on the other hand...

If you had actually comprehended anything written in the thread prior to your several days late half-assed contribution you would never have written that confrontational garbage that spewed forth from your keyboard. Everything that everyone else had written was indicating that chameleons were more prone to health problems when placed in circumstances that were less than ideal than many other reptiles, this is a simple fact. They are not impossible fragile soap bubbles, but they are far from bulletproof. Several people then went on to hypothesize about some of the things which may have been at the root of this animal's demise, suggestions for approaching the vendor in question and some conversational tips for preventative measures against future incidents.

The original poster also responded indicating that they had been in contact with the vendor, who was going to replace the animal regardless of fault.

So your post, coming in at the tail end of that, ignoring all context and trying to refute the idea that chameleons are among the more delicate species of reptile commonly available in the pet trade and attempting to put unequivocal blame on the vendor was, to put it frankly, bullshit. It was stupid, it was short-sighted, it was wrong and it was ill-timed. You never should have made it to begin with; sarcasm was handling it with kid gloves, hoping you would get a clue and have the decency to be embarrassed.
 

tlbowling

Geck~OCD
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1,758
Location
NJ
Stuff like this, keeps this forum interesting;) I kinda feel like I'm watching Jerry Springer, lol.

Anyway Kathryn, did you ever get a new one? If so how'd it go, and how's he doing?
 

Vegas Chad

Tiki Tiki Reptiles
Messages
54
Location
Henderson, Nv
I typically enjoy reading exchanges like that; however I don’t participate. No need to get into a pissing match especially with a person like this who has only started 6 threads in 6ish years, half of which in the rant forum. I think my first response was the best one. I won’t even waste my time reading the second post. :)

Maybe this will get him going again? ;)
 
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