Refusing & spitting out dusted insects

[JordanAng420]

Any suggestions for geckos who refuse or spit out dusted insects? I think i've tried every single kind of calcium there is.

She spins it around in her mouth and spits it out, OR she'll nail it and realize it's coated with something, drop it and walk away.

The rest of them really don't care, and will eat just about anything dusted or not dusted. But this one hates dusting of any kind.

The thing is, she's gravid and she NEEDS calcium, and I don't ever see her eating it on her own. I'm worried she's not going to be able to absorb enough.

I've tried things like tricking her by only dusting the crickets underside, or just dusting every other one or so...she's got me all figured out.

Ideas?

 

[Tony C]

Have you tried Calcium Plus? It has fruit added for a sweeter flavor.

 

[Bongo]

You can feed the crickets calcium rich gutload and quench if you're not already.

 

[JordanAng420]

Have you tried Calcium Plus? It has fruit added for a sweeter flavor.

I haven't tried that. She MIGHT just like it! I'll google it. Thanks Tony!

Bongo, I gutload all my insects with calcium-rich vegetables, cricket feed and cornmeal for at least 48 hours.

 

[Tony C]

You're welcome. There are several threads about it on here, it's the supplement by Allen Repashy. I have used it on all my bug eaters for about a year now, it's good stuff.

 

[LizMarie]

I use Ca + as well and none of my geckos have never refused a worm or roach. It's smells good in general which I like

 

[sammer021486]

Try the Calcium plus its also labelled as T-rex Leopard gecko ICB.

before I knew about the Calcium plus I used Exo-terra's calcium water conditioner. It added calcium to the water for my male who only ate supers, now I use calcium plus and it sticks to the crickets like mad and I am not sure of the supers yet haven't tried.

 

[acpart]

I'm not 100% sure the calcium plus is the same as the T-Rex since I think Repashy has since left T rex and developed his supplements more (though I may be wrong; Julie from Gecko Ranch would know better than I). If the calcium plus doesn't work, you could also try not dusting the crickets and then making a paste of calcium and water and rubbing some around her mouth.

Aliza

 

[Tony C]

As far as I can tell they are still in business together, from Repashy's website: "This product is licensed by T-Rex Products and marketed as "Calcium Plus ICB" It has also been labeled as a species specific product for marketing purposes, but they are all the same thing. (examples: Bearded Dragon ICB, Tree Frog ICB)"

 

[acpart]

As far as I can tell they are still in business together, from Repashy's website: "This product is licensed by T-Rex Products and marketed as "Calcium Plus ICB" It has also been labeled as a species specific product for marketing purposes, but they are all the same thing. (examples: Bearded Dragon ICB, Tree Frog ICB)"

Good to know.

Aliza

 

[StatikStepz]

If u can't get it to eat the calcium dusted food... no biggie, its ok! Just get Phoenix Worms!! They are loaded with calcium and you gecko will get the supplementation it needs!

 

[Yamori]

I remember reading about a similar thing on an Australian reptile forum where people were finding it hard to make sure their reptiles were getting enough calcium being that allot of reptiles simply hate powder. The answer = Snails.

Apparently there has been allot of research done in Europe suggesting that snails are a good occasional treat and great source of calcium. If i remember correctly the Ca was very good. I will see if i can find a link, its been a while .

 

[Yamori]

Ok, i think i have found it but unfortunately its in Dutch? Any one on here speak Dutch?

http://www.animalproject.com/artikels/Voederdieren/chemisch.php

From memory i believe the ratio was something like Landsnails- 32:1 where as Snails without a shell were 4:1. hopefully someone on here speaks the language and can translate lol.

-

Darren.

 

[Marty]

I had the same problem with my female (funnilly enough) I now use a liquid spray type and she is totally unaware!!!

 

[JordanAng420]

Well...

I got my hands on some calcium plus, and the final verdict is (i'll quote the tv show)...Mikey doesn't like it! So much for that. Oh well, now I have more kinds of calcium than I know what to do with. Ha!

Phoenix worms i've tried before. Spits 'em out.

I am using Aliza's technique by making the paste with the rep-cal. I remember doing that for a few of my MBD patients a couple years ago. She figured out that if I just put it on her face, she can rub her face on the repticarpet or her coconut and get rid of it. Like a dog, wiping it's slobber on the furnature. :main_rolleyes: She gets mad enough to bite me, and then I stuff some of the paste in her mouth with a rubber applicator. Most of the time she gets a good amount, lol. This gecko has lived up to her name since day one... Pita stands for P.I.T.A

Darren, I wish I spoke Dutch! LOL...If you're still following this thread, how would I go about feeding snails? Or am I just totally missing something in which case I would be very embarrased

 

[Yamori]

Hi Maia,

it was some time ago that i read the thread in question on another board.

Most big pet stores should keep land and or aquarium snails. Both are fine though i believe i remember the latter to have slightly lower cal. Both are supposedly high in protein also witch is good.

As for feeding, feed appropriate sized ones, the shell is where the calcium is, smaller snails have a much thinner shell but apparently both are readily eaten and easily digested.

Ill see if i can find more info. -

Darren

 

[StatikStepz]

...So wait a second... Geckos eats snails? Shell and all? Down the hatch? lol... Or do they somehow get the snail out?

And my other question is this... geckos are attracted to prety that moves... the quick movement is what triggers their instinct to feed... so, with snails being as slow as they are, how would that even trigger that in the gecko's sight for it to say "Hey! There's food!"...??? It seems to me like the geckos wouldn't even know it existed right there next to it... would prolly just think it was a rock and would just walk rite over it.

I'm not trying to disprove what you are saying, don't get me wrong... i am seriously asking these questions... obviously if it is a known thing over in Holland, then it must somehow work, i just don't see how, lol...

 

[Yamori]

I see what your getting at and i too believe that geckos and most reptiles for that matter need their prey to be active.

Active prey seem to be more appealing and appetizing to them but what about mealies? Supers, silk worms or any species of worm for that matter? reptiles will consume many of these non active and boring prey in one sitting.

Roaches, although active upon being placed in to your reptile enclosure will find a place to hide and stay their. your geckos will have to actively search and dig to find them, usually unsuccessfully as i have personally observed. Witch goes to show that activity inst always the key trigger to hunt and eat their prey.

I have seen various species or reptile large and small consume snails, shell and all with little or no difficulty whatsoever. obviously they shouldn't become a staple food but as they are good source of calcium and protein they make a good occasional treat.

I haven't tried live land snails yet ( as the local pet store didn't have any appropriate sized ones) but zoo med or some other reptile company makes canned snails. I boght a can of those and they went pretty fast.

just my 2 c

 

[Sammag]

I have a rough translation of the article. (yay dutch to english dicionary and online translators) Anyway Ill copy it below:

Chemical values (of/in) garden insects

Author: Meindert Blood Head

Introduction
Inspired by Tariq Stark as much as possible from our own garden insects to your reptiles argue, arose in me the idea that creatures once the chemical under scrutiny. For inquiries and several searches at the Internet did not answer about the nutritional values of our native insects. Unfortunately for me it is not possible to determine everything to do with nutrition. But I have to measure the calcium content (Ca) and phosphorus (P) to determine. In itself is an important way to know for reptiles is because the ratio Ca: P as 2: 1. Phosphorus is the proportion relative to the constant high calcium will certainly Rassis dreaded disease around the corner come and see. Hence, very often chosen at the regular food extra calcium (mineral preparation) to add.

Method:
Both the calcium and phosphorus content but it is measured using an ISO / EEC regulation.
ISO / EEC rules are laid down requirements / standards is to ensure that everyone works the same way and thus a repeatable result from analysis conducted by another laboratory.
Calcium is for the BS EN ISO 6869:2001 used.
And for the phosphorus determination: L.279/15 EEC, 1971.

NEN-EN-ISO 6869: 2001 describes the determination of the levels of calcium, iron, magnesium, potassium, sodium and zinc in animal feed. This method makes use of atomic absorption spectrophotometer (AAS) In atomic absorption, we use the fact that each substance absorbs light at a frequency slightly unique to that substance.
Exact explanations: http://www.perkin-elmer.com/AIMKT/lit.nsf/webfiles/AACKBK96.PDF/ $ file/AACKBK96.PDF
Page 3 to 5 control English language.

EEC L.279/15, 1971 describes the determination of phosphorus in animal feed using a color metric analysis. The provision uses the reaction of ortho-phosphate and ammonium in an acid environment aliumantimoontaraat-molybdenum phosphoric acid. Reduction with ascorbic acid gives a blue color whose intensity is measured at 880 nm. The intensity is a measure of the final phosphorus concentration.



Sample Isopoda Worms Spiders Snail Slugs
Type Wild Catch Wild Catch Wild Catch Wild Catch Wild Catch
Fe (mg / Kg) 201 555 52 23 57
Ca (mg / Kg) 63800 2320 1450 54500 6360
Mg (mg / Kg) 1310 401 659 485 547
Pb (mg / Kg) 0.2 1.5 1.1 <0.1 <0.1
Ni (mg / Kg) 0.9 2.1 1.2 0.2 0.2
Al (mg / Kg) 184 420 68 19 49
After (mg / Kg) 3780 1350 2210 1080 734
K (mg / Kg) 2470 910 2380 1780 1370
Zn (mg / Kg) 115 157 165 27 63
Cd (mg / Kg) <1 2 1.1 <1 <1
P (mg / Kg) 4760 1410 3440 1680 1700

Ca: P 13: 1 1.6: 1 0.4: 1 32: 1 4: 1



Sample Crickets Fly Grasshoppers Red-Runners
Type Commercial Commercial Commercial Commercial
Fe (mg / Kg) 28 106 22 27
Ca (mg / Kg) 1130 862 424 592
Mg (mg / Kg) 331 598 308 361
Pb (mg / Kg) <0.1 0.5 0.1 <0.1
Ni (mg / Kg) 0.8 0.8 0.3 0.2
Al (mg / Kg) 17 31 9 10
After (mg / Kg) 1600 1710 872 850
K (mg / Kg) 3630 2340 2850 3150
Zn (mg / Kg) 87 72 95 480
Cd (mg / Kg) <1 <1 <1 <1
P (mg / Kg) 2960 3680 2260 2140

Ca: P 0.4: 1 0.2: 1 0.2: 1 0.3: 1



Conclusions

Isopoda give a good result, so beautiful that duplicate analysis will be performed. Indeed we want to make sure that the correct conclusion can be drawn.

Worms they are caught in Almere, the Flevo polders are known for its clay. This is a regional outcome. But a worm is not the lump of earth as to what it takes. So calcium - phosphorus ratio can be influenced by adding clay to the temporary substrate where they are stored.

Slugs are those prisoners Almere is also given all the favorable result to explain, so a national sampling would give a better picture.

Snail This positive outcome was expected, because the house has a high proportion of calcium.

Outstanding actions
Isopoda further analysis to exclude contamination or misanalyse. Wild caught flies, unfortunately we are busy again failed to capture is not so prosecuted. Grasshoppers wild caught, the first nymphs have been observed thus follow as soon as possible. Worms, the fishing season has started so why not the commercial product also analyze and compare the wild caught analysis. Slugs would agree we need a national sample.

Epilogue
It seems that this study does not add some analysis should be done as it may seem regionally influenced. But comparing the results of the commercial product we see a real improvement in the ratio calcium: phosphorus.
So it just like I live on a clay soil would do well to enrich the diet with wild caught insects. Highest scoring the provisional snails then followed by the slugs and woodlice. Residing on different clay would do well to earn additional mineral provisionally added to the diet for both commercial and do the wild insects.