Should you ship back sick geckos that are bound to die in shipping?

[goReptiles]

Here's the situation:

I purchased a lot of crested geckos from a breeder on kingsnake, and three to four 3-4 month old cresteds in the same deli cup to make 3 deli cups. All were great specimens, so I trusted the guy to buy another lot. This time, I purchased 12 ; I was told they were a just a little younger, but when I received them, I'd average them at about 1 month old. They were all packed together in a mini kritter keeper.

I informed him upon delivery that one of the geckos could not use its back legs and many were very lethargic. I was told to keep an eye on them and let him know in a few days how they were doing.

I did, and no response. The one gecko still could not walk, and the rest seemed fine for that time being.

Now a few weeks later, the one still cannot walk, 2 have died, and 3-4 are still lethargic. I was told to ship them back and he will determine if it's my fault or his, but shipping is bound to kill them.

Today is cleaning day, and I'm quite nervous to clean the kritter keepers they are in. Yesterday when feeding, they just did not look good.

What should I do? I feel they were WAY too young to ship, and would not have purchased them if I knew they were so small and young. I do not see a happy outcome for the babies, but I definitely don't see a good outcome if they're shipped back. I just don't think they will make it through shipping.

They do not seem ill from sickness, they just don't seem to have taken to being shipped so young. I think the stress is what got them, and they really haven't recouped it. The other lot that are nearly 3 times the size haven't had any problems.

 

[pkrtech]

Personally there is no way I could ship a at risk animal. Try to get the ones you have healthy if you cannot then try to get a refund and then just note the breeder and move on.

 

[Sunrise Reptile]

Hmmmmmmm...

I hope you weighed them the day they arrived. That would give you some material to substantiate your complaint. Assuming they were indeed too small to ship (and if you say so I believe they were, since I've purchased crested geckos from you in the past ), then whoever sold you those cresteds should give you a partial refund in compensation for the ones that perished. Based on your description of their condition, I wouldn't ship them back. But that's just my opinion, FWIW.

 

[goReptiles]

the second lot of geckos were all 1.5-2.3 grams.

I received an email back and he wants pictures of the dead geckos, which I did not take. My fault. And I certainly don't have the dead bodies. By which I had another death from the lot yesterday.

I did take video of the gecko that cannot use its back legs and hasn't been able to walk since I got him, of which I did inform him of that when the geckos arrived. Basically, I think it's boiling down to the gecko can't walk because of me and the others are lethargic and dying because of my fault... And again I still let him know about all the lethargic ones and the one that can't walk when I got them, and an update a few days later with little to no progress. Some got better, some did not.

He is bound and determined that I need to ship them, but I can't. I can't do it knowing they will die for sure in shipping.

 

[Chewbecca]

hm...
This, to me, is obviously the breeder's fault.

They were too small to ship, and I don't think they were probably doing all that well with the breeder, honestly.
I've had 3 gram cresteds ship to me that did just FINE during shipping.
So, something tells me these little ones were doomed before leaving the breeder's.

Not that I know this breeder, and I surely don't like saying bad things about people I don't know, but even can .2 grams make THAT much of a difference to a gecko's health when it comes to shipping?
I ask because I don't know.

I don't know if there is an age time to ship cresties, or if it's by weight, really.


And this situation is just gross to me.
Because had he replied to you the second time you contacted him about the condition of the cresteds, this could have been resolved better then, most likely.
Now he's waited, and now he wants to place blame on you.

That's just horrible.
Those poor babies.

 

[goReptiles]

Thanks Rebecca. I don't think they were ill with sickness, just severely stressed out.

He said that since I only had proof of 1 dead of the 4 I'm saying died, he'll replace 3. That is fair enough since I didn't photograph the dead bodies or save them for future use and whatever.

I know that the one that can't walk will eventually die, but whatever. I know that he arrived to me that way, and he has not improved. I informed him from day one, and he had nothing to say.

He said I have to pay shipping for the geckos he will replace. I think that half is fair, since I did go and dig through the garbage to find the one body and sent videos of the disabled gecko.

I told him I'd rather him send me money back instead because I didn't want any more from him, but he said he doesn't refund money.

He says he can't say that the one that cannot walk is his fault or mine. Yet it arrived to me in that condition.

 

[Chewbecca]

See, now, I know he's offered to refund you 3 geckos out of, what, 5 that either passed or are disabled?

But I'd still have problems with this breeder.
HE cannot say if the disabled one is your fault or HIS??????
What?
If he checked his INBOX, he'd KNOW you sent an email to him about the disabled one.

And I just thought of a way to prove to him that you contacted him earlier about the disabled one.
Can you find the email you sent to him about the disabled gecko the first time around?
If so, forward it to him. I believe it'll be stamped with the original date.

What a jerk of a breeder.
We bought 4 or 5 (cannot remember exact quantity I'll have to ask my husband) mud turtles from a breeder 2 years ago. All but two arrived dead, and the other two passed the next day.
When my husband contacted the breeder he offered a discount on a future purchase.
A discount on a FUTURE purchase?????

It's breeders like these that make it harder for buyers to trust breeders.

Again, I'm sorry you're going through this. How horrible.

Thanks Rebecca. I don't think they were ill with sickness, just severely stressed out.

He said that since I only had proof of 1 dead of the 4 I'm saying died, he'll replace 3. That is fair enough since I didn't photograph the dead bodies or save them for future use and whatever.

I know that the one that can't walk will eventually die, but whatever. I know that he arrived to me that way, and he has not improved. I informed him from day one, and he had nothing to say.

He said I have to pay shipping for the geckos he will replace. I think that half is fair, since I did go and dig through the garbage to find the one body and sent videos of the disabled gecko.

I told him I'd rather him send me money back instead because I didn't want any more from him, but he said he doesn't refund money.

He says he can't say that the one that cannot walk is his fault or mine. Yet it arrived to me in that condition.

 

[goReptiles]

He responded to me the first time about the disabled gecko, but not the second time with continued problems. Said to check for shed. When I replied to say that none was there, he never replied back if I recall. A few days later with an update, he still did not respond.

I chalked it up as a loss. He said that I must be seeing his generosity as weakness for asking for half shipping bc I could prove one of the deaths and the disabled gecko. That my story sounded fishy. Said if I wasn't satisfied with the disabled gecko that I could send him back. Now, seriously, if I was happy with him all in all, why would I have complained?

I'm not paying shipping if someone is going to accuse me of being a liar. If he has been professional, I would have paid, or at least halved the shipping with him. I do not lie, and I surely don't lie when it comes to business because I don't want to be lied to, so I don't want to lie to anyone.

 

[ajveachster]

Sorry to hear how much trouble you have had with that breeder. It is unfortunate that somebody you had a good dealing with then gave you such a hard time. I don't think I would want to ship back the sick geckos because I don't think I would want to risk their lives. Good luck with the replacements you are sent. I hope they thrive. Also, good luck with the one that has trouble moving. I wish I knew what the best thing for it would be. I guess a vet visit is in order so you can make that decision. I understand that you are put in a difficult situation all around.