Tips on how to contact a breeder regarding an animal I cannot breed?

[JordanAng420]

Here's my situation. I currently own 5 leopard geckos, all from different breeders around the country. I was looking to start a breeding project next season (or whenever it is they decide to ovulate) to try for Nova leopard geckos....

Back in January, I purchased the female enigma that I wanted to use for my project. I bought her from someone I consider to be the "Michael Jordan" of leopard gecko breeding...I can't mention names, so I guess i'll leave it at that. (His last name does not rhyme with "blemper" ) She was not cheap. She was $550. But she's the perfect example of what I need, and she's a double het for Tremper Albino & RAPTOR...

Things are going peachy...Fast foreward to the beginning of last month. Suddenly, she starts in with this "enigma syndrome" Lately, it's just gotten worse, and it's at the point where she can't hunt food by herself- I have to hand feed her, and even then she can't focus on the food item & ends up missing. She's thin. Started out at 68 grams and is now barely hitting 50. When she's not sleeping she's doing tight circles in her cage. And when she IS sleeping, her head is always tilted to the left. ALWAYS.

I can get pictures & videos if you all need proof of what I am speaking about. I'm watching her circle as I type.

The funny thing is, somebody that has a gecko exactly the same morph, age, and from the same breeder contacted me. After a few emails of tracing some genetic history, come to find out she's got my clutchmate. And she's sick with the "syndrome" too.

I want to contact the breeder & let him know what's going on and that I can't ethically breed her, which was the main purpose of my purchasing her. I've grown quite attached to her and I wouldn't want to return her, but I thought that he should know if he were to breed my geckos parents again. I just thought maybe some of you have been through a similar situation and could maybe give me some tips on how to go about alerting the breeder of this mess? TIA

 

[GeckoGal]

OMG, I'm so sorry. well, I had a question I e-mailed him a few years back and he replied very detailed in a long message and I didn't even purchase a gecko. He was really nice so I'm guessing he'd listen. I'd send him a pic or video of him to just so he know's your not making it up. Worse he could do is not reply

 

[acpart]

I think it makes sense to contact him and tell him exactly what you told us. If you make it very clear that your intent is to clue him in to somethi9ng about his geckos he doesn't know, he should really thank you. There's always a chance he'll get defensive, which also happens when people don't want to hear something, but if phrased politely, it's worth the risk.

Aliza

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I'm sorry to hear about your gecko! Speaking from a breeders' standpoint, there is no way a breeder can guarantee the 'breedability' of any gecko. I've got a superior RAPTOR male from a very well-known and reputable breeder who has yet to father a clutch of eggs after 2 years and 6 females. It isn't the breeder's fault, is it?

Second, when buying Enigma's, there is always the chance that they can develop the Enigma 'syndrome' at any time, especially when they are under stress (like breeding). I feel that if the gecko was not exhibiting any symptoms when you received it, then the breeder is not responsible for the gecko developing those symptoms. If the gecko exhibited the "Enigma Syndrome" when you bought it, and it was NOT disclosed to you, then the breeder would be responsible... but after all 7 months, I would not consider the breeder responsible for anything. Unfortunately, imperfect geckos are a risk when we buy ANY gecko.

Turn it around. If you sold someone a gecko last January and it was fine, would you be willing to exchange the gecko or give a refund after all that time? Probably not.

There is never any guarantee after 6 -7 months that any animal will not have a problem, or even die. The breeder/seller has no guarantee of how the gecko is housed and maintained after all that time, so they should not be responsible. In regard to Enigmas, full disclosure should be given and the buyer is responsible for doing their homework for the possible behavior problems any morph might exhibit.

Sorry... just my professional opinion.

 

[JordanAng420]

I'm sorry to hear about your gecko! Speaking from a breeders' standpoint, there is no way a breeder can guarantee the 'breedability' of any gecko. I've got a superior RAPTOR male from a very well-known and reputable breeder who has yet to father a clutch of eggs after 2 years and 6 females. It isn't the breeder's fault, is it?

Second, when buying Enigma's, there is always the chance that they can develop the Enigma 'syndrome' at any time, especially when they are under stress (like breeding). I feel that if the gecko was not exhibiting any symptoms when you received it, then the breeder is not responsible for the gecko developing those symptoms. If the gecko exhibited the "Enigma Syndrome" when you bought it, and it was NOT disclosed to you, then the breeder would be responsible... but after all 7 months, I would not consider the breeder responsible for anything. Unfortunately, imperfect geckos are a risk when we buy ANY gecko.

Turn it around. If you sold someone a gecko last January and it was fine, would you be willing to exchange the gecko or give a refund after all that time? Probably not.

There is never any guarantee after 6 -7 months that any animal will not have a problem, or even die. The breeder/seller has no guarantee of how the gecko is housed and maintained after all that time, so they should not be responsible. In regard to Enigmas, full disclosure should be given and the buyer is responsible for doing their homework for the possible behavior problems any morph might exhibit.

Sorry... just my professional opinion.

I don't blame him at all. I'm sorry if that's the idea I gave. He's a great guy. I was aware of all the enigma issues when I bought her, and i'm aware that it isn't his fault for anything. I just got off the phone with him not too long ago. We had a really great conversation. I just wanted some tips to go about addressing this issue WITHOUT sounding like i'm attacking him. I like him, I know what the issues are, I've done the research, and i'm fully prepared to accept the responsibillity of having an enigma. I'm simply trying to inform the breeder of my issues, and at the same time asking for his advice for the future.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I'm simply trying to inform the breeder of my issues, and at the same time asking for his advice for the future.

Good! The breeder should be advised of these kinds of problems. I was just concerned and defensive as a breeder That issues like this can get pretty touchy. I should have known that you would be objective, Maia! Kudos!

 

[DarthGekko]

This comment is directed towards the "Enigma Syndrome". Leave her alone and she will probably be okay. If your husbandry is good then just let her be. Enigmas can and will breed and eat just fine if you leave them alone. Stress them out or "hand" feed them and this usually worsens the situation. As long as she feels secure with her surroundings she will probably be okay. I pretty much just leave breeding groups alone especially if they have Enigmas in them and 99% of the time they eat and breed.

I did have an instance where a very expensive ($600) female died while trying to pass her first egg. She bled out the vent for several days and the breeder I bought her from who may be who you are refering to was very helpful and supportive to me. He could not tell me what was wrong though either and well, she passed shortly after laying this giant rubber egg. She was an Enigma so maybe she had internal stuff going on but I have never experienced an Enigma not eating and losing that much weight due to "Enigma Syndrome". I am not an expert but it sounds like something is stressing her out, whether it be the environment or the male. Also, a lot of people dont talk about it all the time but a lot of Enigmas do the head tilting and circling, more often than what is discussed. Also, I have observed this in Albino strains more often than non-albinos.

Get her stress level down and get her eating again before you try to breed her again but I dont think she is a lost cause yet Maia.

Good luck and I hope she gets better

 

[Nigel4less]

This comment is directed towards the "Enigma Syndrome". Leave her alone and she will probably be okay. If your husbandry is good then just let her be. Enigmas can and will breed and eat just fine if you leave them alone. Stress them out or "hand" feed them and this usually worsens the situation. As long as she feels secure with her surroundings she will probably be okay. I pretty much just leave breeding groups alone especially if they have Enigmas in them and 99% of the time they eat and breed.

I did have an instance where a very expensive ($600) female died while trying to pass her first egg. She bled out the vent for several days and the breeder I bought her from who may be who you are refering to was very helpful and supportive to me. He could not tell me what was wrong though either and well, she passed shortly after laying this giant rubber egg. She was an Enigma so maybe she had internal stuff going on but I have never experienced an Enigma not eating and losing that much weight due to "Enigma Syndrome". I am not an expert but it sounds like something is stressing her out, whether it be the environment or the male. Also, a lot of people dont talk about it all the time but a lot of Enigmas do the head tilting and circling, more often than what is discussed. Also, I have observed this in Albino strains more often than non-albinos.

Get her stress level down and get her eating again before you try to breed her again but I dont think she is a lost cause yet Maia.

Good luck and I hope she gets better

Couldn't put it better, Nate!

 

[Gregg M]

There is no question that enigmas are a bit off... In my opinion, it is not if the syndrome will show its self, but when... I doubt that "stress" is the only thing that can trigger the syndrome... I am certain that anything can be a trigger...

Anyway, we know what could happen with an enigma... In my opinion, the breeder should not be held accountable for anything involving "enigma syndrome"... Its as much a part of the morph as blotches are to patternless...

 

[OhioGecko]

Couldn't put it better, Nate!

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