Wholesale prices at local Expo

justindh1

New Member
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Pilot Grove, Missouri
So I finally attended my first expo as a vendor this last saturday. I had priced all of my geckos, which are tangerine carrot tails, snows, hypo snows, and SHTCT, from $30 to $55 dollars.

I expected to sale a couple atleast but it turned out that it was a better experience then it was economical. All of my prices were great! Snows and hypo snows were around $35-45, tangs around $25-30, and SHTCT were priced at $55. SHTCT had almost 75% carrot tail which is price way below what is normally seen. All prices to me seemed very reasonable.

So here is where my problem lays, There was a vendor, who is a newer member here, was selling mostly normals but alot of them where poss. het for albino and raptor. He was pricing all of these at wholesale prices. All of them were priced from $10-20 most being 10 or 15 dollars! He even had snakes priced pretty low too. Some of his geckos even looked like they where maybe a week or two old at best.

Many other vendors wern't too happy with him either. You could tell he wanted to make sure he sold animals and made it a profitable venture but in the process screwed everyone else over. They are not only hurting other vendors but also hurt thereselves by pricing so low.

What does everyone think about wholesale pricing at a reptile expo? Do you think that it is right to do this?
 

Halley

Senior Member
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Missouri
In a capitalist economy it’s fair to price whatever goods you’re selling at whatever price you want. So no it’s not unethical IMO. However, selling geckos that young isn’t too ethical.
 
B

BioWorkZ

Guest
As a buyer, I would want to purchase my geckos at the lowest prices possible. Then again, all the quality geckos are never priced at wholesale rates. If you have special morphs then you wouldn't need to worry about another vendor ruining the market. Chances are the people who purchase the geckos from the other vendors are newbies and don't know what morphs are worth. I agree with Halley, it is a capitalist economy. If I were a seller, I wouldn't be too happy either...but business is business right?
 

acpart

Geck-cessories
Staff member
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15,118
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Somerville, MA
It's unfortunate when someone prices geckos that low, but I don't think it's unethical. Sometimes vending at your first reptile show is an investment in your future reputation as a breeder. You may not have sold many (or any) at this show, but people will remember your geckos and they will remember geckos that either don't look so good or don't do well once purchased (I'm not saying that those other geckos don't look good or didn't do well, but I would guess that's a possibility if they were as you say). The next year, you may have people seeking you out. I have gone from being a newcomer at a show and only selling a few geckos to having people emailing me before a show and coming specifically to see what's at my table. If you set what you feel is a fair price that you're confident about (and are willing to be flexible $5-10 in certain circumstances) and keep your geckos healthy, nice looking and of good weights, I feel that eventually it will pay off.

Aliza
 

justindh1

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Pilot Grove, Missouri
In a capitalist economy it’s fair to price whatever goods you’re selling at whatever price you want. So no it’s not unethical IMO. However, selling geckos that young isn’t too ethical.

It may be a capitalist economy but i know everyone was complaining about over $4 dollar a gallon gas. Its alright to complain when things are too high but not when they are too low its perfectly fine. If they really want it then they will pay for it. People are only making others lower thier prices and they end up barely making thier money back or not at all.

Let people continue to sell all of their geckos for 10-15 dollars and we will see how the market goes. People that want cheap geckos are only worried about the money not really too much about the gecko. I can see them not worried about the living creature too much because it was only $10 and easily replaced. People think like that all the time because we are wastefull creatures.

Aliza, I believe that you are right in what you just said. Your customers and people you help are your best advertisement. Thats what people need to consider. If you sell a cheap gecko or young gecko and things go south for it then the customer will let others know. If they sell healthy geckos that thrive great then it will benefit you.

People that say cheap geckos are great are only consumers! Thats all they worry about is getting a gecko that is cheap so they don't have anything in it. Peeople who buy investment quality geckos right now are getting screwed because they are not going to get anything close to the amount they payed for their breeders.
 

KelliH

New Member
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6,641
Location
Fort Worth, TX
Welcome to the leopard gecko business. It's not now nor has it ever been a very financially lucrative thing. I always tell my customers that if they are investing in a high end gecko to make $$$ they need to be prepared to wait a couple of years to really see any profit.

That being said, it is sad how low these prices have dropped at shows. Overproduction is not a good thing for our market and those that mass produce and sell at shows at wholesale prices are really doing a disservice to themselves as well as the business as a whole. These guys are wholesaling themselves right out of the business though, and I for one am very happy to see them go.
 
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KelliH

New Member
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6,641
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Fort Worth, TX
Also, in my opinion selling fresh hatchlings at a show like that is rather unethical. Like I said before, these guys are ruining (have ruined?) their own market. A couple of them have already abandoned ship and let's just hope others follow suit very soon.
 

ILoveGeckos14

New Member
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Florida
I feel like the low priced geckos are their own self sustaining industry. Person buys $5 gecko, 5$ gecko dies, buys another $5 gecko etc...If anything those ppl might be helping in the long run bc those that buy $5 geckos are on here asking questions about dying geckos while (hopefully) simultaneously finding out they can get quality animals from people here. It's like marketing with a free trial gecko and then they get hooked!lol People will also buy high end quality morphs always. Its kind of like the economy middle class gets screwed!

Say someone tries to start a collection on $5 geckos. They sure can't compete against others selling bulk geckos at $5 and sure can't compete against quality so I'm not too worried about that. Things have a way of balancing out.
 

THE WHISPERER

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2,093
Location
California
I do agree with them selling them so small being bad. I do on the other hand think that there isn't anything wrong with there prices. Some people go to a show to have a wide variety of beautiful animals to choose from, and some go to simply to buy cheaper then they would normally find elsewhere. $15 for a normal is not that much lower than what you'd find it at a chain store. I think the percentage of the price difference for there normals compaired to the percentage off the price difference in the 75% carrot tail you were sellin compaired to normal market value might be about the same or even less. I've talked to a few breeders about their sales at different shows and it varies alot depending on where they are. some shows they do great on the higher end stuff and some do better with the cheaper stuff. I think you just got one of the shows where there was a higher turnout of people looking for pets instead of projects. I just vended my first show and my prices were close to yours but i also had a normal for $15 and a high yellow for $20. Now if they were selling Tangs with 75%CT and snows for $15 i could see where there would be a problem.
 

artgecko

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353
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Winchester, Massachusetts
There isn't much you can do about someone with really low prices. But maybe you could market your geckos differently. Maybe improve your presentation, fancy table covering, better sign, photos explaining the different morphs, free handouts... Give the appearance that your geckos are a better deal even if they are priced higher. Appeal to people that want a quality pet and not a cheap pet. Warn them that a $15 gecko might cost more after including a trip to the vet... or the disappointment on their child's face when the cheap gecko dies in a week.
 

justindh1

New Member
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1,584
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Pilot Grove, Missouri
I do agree with them selling them so small being bad. I do on the other hand think that there isn't anything wrong with there prices. Some people go to a show to have a wide variety of beautiful animals to choose from, and some go to simply to buy cheaper then they would normally find elsewhere. $15 for a normal is not that much lower than what you'd find it at a chain store. I think the percentage of the price difference for there normals compaired to the percentage off the price difference in the 75% carrot tail you were sellin compaired to normal market value might be about the same or even less. I've talked to a few breeders about their sales at different shows and it varies alot depending on where they are. some shows they do great on the higher end stuff and some do better with the cheaper stuff. I think you just got one of the shows where there was a higher turnout of people looking for pets instead of projects. I just vended my first show and my prices were close to yours but i also had a normal for $15 and a high yellow for $20. Now if they were selling Tangs with 75%CT and snows for $15 i could see where there would be a problem.

I sure would like to see what chain pet store is selling leopard geckos for $15.
The prices around here for leopard geckos are from $40+ for normals. They are looking for a profit not a quick dollar. They buy 10, $5-$10 geckos and feed them for no telling how long and then sell them. If they sell them for $15 like you say then they arn't making jack at all unless they sell them the first couple days.

Also these normals were also poss het for albino and raptor like my original post reads. They also had young babies less then the appropriate age that looked like they would grow up to be SHTCT for $15.

All these people want is to make a buck. They don't care about anyone but theirsleves. Its the selfish human idealistic view. Its people that think this is right that is screwing up the market.
 

THE WHISPERER

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California
I sure would like to see what chain pet store is selling leopard geckos for $15.
The prices around here for leopard geckos are from $40+ for normals. They are looking for a profit not a quick dollar. They buy 10, $5-$10 geckos and feed them for no telling how long and then sell them. If they sell them for $15 like you say then they arn't making jack at all unless they sell them the first couple days.

Also these normals were also poss het for albino and raptor like my original post reads. They also had young babies less then the appropriate age that looked like they would grow up to be SHTCT for $15.

All these people want is to make a buck. They don't care about anyone but theirsleves. Its the selfish human idealistic view. Its people that think this is right that is screwing up the market.

If i'm not mistaking PET** and PET***** sell them for like $17. The chain stores sell them cheap and way too young in most cases. They also buy in bulk and lose half of what they buy do to bad husbandry. the reason being is because they're not making a profit off of them their profit comes from all the supplies they sell you to go with that gecko. As for the hets, anyone looking for a gecko for a breeding project is not going to buy Poss. hets, they're going to buy 100% hets or the actual morph. imo poss. hets don't make the value of a gecko go up at all. I missed the part where you mentioned they were selling SHTCT for that price, i was commenting on the normals. I too think its sad that the market value for this living art has dropped to such a low. I see it all the time people selling high quality animals for dirt cheap making it impossable for those of us that spent high dollar on projects, put a few years into it and have to take a loss to sell them.

Its people that think this is right that is screwing up the market.
I don't think that the fact that prices have dropped to this is right. What i think is right is that a normal be sold for $15 compaired to what everything else is going for. I personally would have liked to get $40 for my normals, but how can i? No offense but you said you were selling 75% carrot tails for $55. I have some really nice tangs that only have 20-25% carrot tail, your prices now make mine valued around $35-$40 which in turn makes my hypos around $25-$30. Where does that leave my normals?
You stated that you were selling yours "which is price way below what is normally seen"
and yet your mad at them for doing the same. I understand if you were angry because of the quality and age of what they were selling (which i'd then agree) but it seems like the pricing is what bothers you the most here.
 

goReptiles

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Georgia
***** sells at $35 but on sale at $17 or something like that. Not sure about ********. They're prices vary if it's a baby, adult, or "giant."
 

justindh1

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Pilot Grove, Missouri
If i'm not mistaking PET** and PET***** sell them for like $17. The chain stores sell them cheap and way too young in most cases. They also buy in bulk and lose half of what they buy do to bad husbandry. the reason being is because they're not making a profit off of them their profit comes from all the supplies they sell you to go with that gecko. As for the hets, anyone looking for a gecko for a breeding project is not going to buy Poss. hets, they're going to buy 100% hets or the actual morph. imo poss. hets don't make the value of a gecko go up at all. I missed the part where you mentioned they were selling SHTCT for that price, i was commenting on the normals. I too think its sad that the market value for this living art has dropped to such a low. I see it all the time people selling high quality animals for dirt cheap making it impossable for those of us that spent high dollar on projects, put a few years into it and have to take a loss to sell them.

I don't think that the fact that prices have dropped to this is right. What i think is right is that a normal be sold for $15 compaired to what everything else is going for. I personally would have liked to get $40 for my normals, but how can i? No offense but you said you were selling 75% carrot tails for $55. I have some really nice tangs that only have 20-25% carrot tail, your prices now make mine valued around $35-$40 which in turn makes my hypos around $25-$30. Where does that leave my normals?
You stated that you were selling yours "which is price way below what is normally seen"
and yet your mad at them for doing the same. I understand if you were angry because of the quality and age of what they were selling (which i'd then agree) but it seems like the pricing is what bothers you the most here.


As for pricing mine at $55 dollars was because it is a small local expo at which i know most people aren't going to spend alot of money so thats why I priced them like that. If i was going to a expo where there are alot more people coming that has money then I would of priced them higher. As you said earlier, your pricing will be based on where you go to sell them. I guess if i was dang near giving them away then you could say i'm doing the same thing but maybe you should ask where I was and what kind of expo i was at before you accuse me of doing the same thing which is EXACTLY what your doing!
 

KelliH

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6,641
Location
Fort Worth, TX
Let's keep the discussion civil everyone. It's a good discussion to have and opinions are welcome, but if we resort to personal attacks I'll have to close the thread.
 

gitrdone0420

Gotta catch 'em all!
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2,664
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Jacksonville, Fl
As a buyer, I am well aware of the people who do this and I have no respect for them. At shows, I typically never buy from a) people I've never heard of, b) Geckos that are on sand in their deli dishes c) Geckos that I think are too INEXPENSIVE. While buying, I am looking for geckos that have had quality bred into them and people who sell at wholesell prices just dont have the quality geckos that Im looking for and they probably never will because they dont care enough. Hopefully other buyers follow suit.
 

ValMarley08

New Member
"Appeal to people that want a quality pet and not a cheap pet. Warn them that a $15 gecko might cost more after including a trip to the vet... or the disappointment on their child's face when the cheap gecko dies in a week."

nicely said stephen
 

justindh1

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Pilot Grove, Missouri
As a buyer, I am well aware of the people who do this and I have no respect for them. At shows, I typically never buy from a) people I've never heard of, b) Geckos that are on sand in their deli dishes c) Geckos that I think are too INEXPENSIVE. While buying, I am looking for geckos that have had quality bred into them and people who sell at wholesell prices just dont have the quality geckos that Im looking for and they probably never will because they dont care enough. Hopefully other buyers follow suit.

I totally agree with you on this 100% as well as i'm sure as mostly everyone who is a member of GF! :main_thumbsup:

The bad thing is that a lot of people who buy reptiles aren't really knowledgable in the right way to do things. They think they do because people who have told them the "Right things" didn't really know what they are talking about. It's a impulse buy for alot of these and they look at the price more then the quality of genetics which is sad to say. They may not know what a healthy gecko is.

I wish others would follow suit in the way you think too. What we need is the people that run the expos to send out to all vendors a what I call "the Ten Commandments of Ethics at a Expo". It would contain rules based on dealing with the customer, pricing "such as no wholesale pricing individuals", proper language, smile, have fun, and so on. I know that it could cause a big mess but its what is needed so all venders have a great show or atleast break even.

I know that I am still young at this selling reptiles thing but I can still tell that there is a earthquake waiting to happen. Its going to take everyone out. The big guys are going to have to slim down and make it more a hobby. The smalls guys are just going to have to not breed at all unless you want to just spend money to give babies away.
 

THE WHISPERER

New Member
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2,093
Location
California
As for pricing mine at $55 dollars was because it is a small local expo at which i know most people aren't going to spend alot of money so thats why I priced them like that. If i was going to a expo where there are alot more people coming that has money then I would of priced them higher. As you said earlier, your pricing will be based on where you go to sell them. I guess if i was dang near giving them away then you could say i'm doing the same thing but maybe you should ask where I was and what kind of expo i was at before you accuse me of doing the same thing which is EXACTLY what your doing!

like i stated earlier

I think the percentage of the price difference for there normals compaired to the percentage of the price difference in the 75% carrot tail you were sellin compaired to normal market value might be about the same or even less.

As for pricing mine at $55 dollars was because it is a small local expo at which i know most people aren't going to spend alot of money so thats why I priced them like that.

weren't they at the same show? i mean really, how much should they be selling normals for at a show that someones selling 75% carrot tails for $55? i'm really curious as to the price you think they should be sold for?

I'm sorry that this has gotten out of hand, my first post was to give an opinion on why someone would sell for that price. I only gave my opinion to show another possibale veiw on the aspect, after all:
What does everyone think about wholesale pricing at a reptile expo? Do you think that it is right to do this?
you did ask. my intensions weren't to upset you or attack you. So sorry you took it that way.
 

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