Broken Leg?

[Geckomaster743]

So for a couple of days now I've noticed that Artemis has been limping and dragging one of her arms or legs. Ive been trying to figure out which one it was but honestly it may be one arm and one leg, Any way i think the one that broke her arm or leg is Athena. Before when they used to fight Athena bit her on the leg and the Male Neo that was in the cage ( Is now Separated ) was supposedly the cause of that. I thought that the Male was the problem but i now realize the only gecko i have that does strike for the legs is Athena so i assumed she is the cause of this. Well in a way I'm right back where i started, Looking to buy more cages and having a gecko experience some Health problem/Injury because of the fighting that it has with its cage mates. Besides that I'm worried about Artemis's leg. Will it heal on its own or does she really need to see a vet. Theres not one near me and i don't have the allowance to pay for that, the only thing that i know to do is Separate her at night and to give her calcium. By the way when i noticed this the Cage was a 20 Gallon, It has Multiple Hides during the day, There is a large water bowl and a huge rock and 3 Cage mates, More then enough space if you ask me.

 

[LeoLover1]

Geez Jacob, I'm so sorry to hear this!!

If you don't see a fracture or a misshaped limb, she might be able to heal on her own. Its amazing how they can adapt. I'd separate her, and keep her in a smallish cage, so she doesn't have to move very far to eat, poo, etc. Keep her warm and try not to move her very much.

But long-term, you're gonna have to consider keeping everyone separated.

 

[Amanda1]

I'd start scanning craigslist and garage sales for more tanks; sounds like you'll be needing them and you can never be too safe. Try calling your nearest vet and explaining your situation; they may be able to give you some advice over the phone for free. And even though it's far away, some will make house calls, and if they're really nice they'll give you a discount or let you pay in installments. But definitely start saving up your money, because even if you don't need to see a vet now, you probably will in the future. Things happen.

 

[Geckomaster743]

Yeah i wasn't expecting this, I mean there both guaranteed females in a large amount of space would could have gone wrong? Plus as it seems I'm never done getting cages. I just bought one for Thesus and the baby though for some apparent reason all my best eaters have stopped eating so well, They now have to be syringe fed or lured out with the 1 Waxworm Followed by the 1 Mealworm trick. And then i have to buy another cage for Athena and then Neo... What am i supposed to do with a 20 Gallon if only 1 gecko stays in it. Any way yeah ill look off of Craigslist because i do that a lot but a lot of the time i have to make a far drive out if I'm going for the offer.

 

[Amanda1]

I know, we're never expecting these things, but they happen. You're still young, so I'm kind of worried you're getting in over your head too soon. Maybe no more new geckos until you have a driver's license and a job? I don't mean to be insulting at all, just trying to offer advice because I've been there. I know you mean well, and you've been very responsible and done all your research and learned a ton, but pets cost a lot of money (I've spent thousands in vet bills alone) and you have to be able to drive them to the vet if there's an emergency. Just keep that in mind.

 

[Geckomaster743]

I know, we're never expecting these things, but they happen. You're still young, so I'm kind of worried you're getting in over your head too soon. Maybe no more new geckos until you have a driver's license and a job? I don't mean to be insulting at all, just trying to offer advice because I've been there. I know you mean well, and you've been very responsible and done all your research and learned a ton, but pets cost a lot of money (I've spent thousands in vet bills alone) and you have to be able to drive them to the vet if there's an emergency. Just keep that in mind.

No I've been thinking about that a lot, For my birthday I was so sure i was going to buy those 2 sunglows. But recently i thought that since i can't provide care for the ones i already have it would just be cruel to drag more geckos in here. So yeah I'm going to wait till i have a Job, Can pay rent and have a car. Hopefully all of you guys will still be around to give me those tips

 

[Amanda1]

That's very smart. Took me awhile to figure that out myself. I can care for all my critters, but I'll admit I'm spread pretty thin sometimes...

 

[Geckomaster743]

That's very smart. Took me awhile to figure that out myself. I can care for all my critters, but I'll admit I'm spread pretty thin sometimes...

Yeah I prefer to keep happy pets, And recently I've had no time for the geckos. Some times no one gets taken out until i have to go to Mom/Dads house every friday.. So honestly my attention is always on the sick one or the one who has the least space, No heat or some thing. Today Achilles's light bulb is coming ( Around 12AM ), His burned out recently.

 

[Apocalypse910]

I've been in a similar situation the last few months. A few healthy geckos are very easy to take care of, a few sick geckos and the time commitment can get insane not to mention the vet bills. I've been keeping herps my whole life and I've never had a rash of problems like I have this year.

I'm really sorry to hear about the issues Artemis is having. It is hard to give any concrete advice without seeing him it seems unlikely that he'd end up with a fractured leg from a squabble with a cage mate unless there are other factors at play. Even without a fracture MDB can cause a gecko to drag their legs, especially their back legs. Additionally it does, of course, make their bones far more fragile and susceptible to fractures.

I recently learned the hard way that MDB can still occur even if you are religiously dusting every meal. I've never had a problem with MDB until recently when two geckos I hatched last year suddenly came down with eye problems and severe facial swelling.

I can't say 100% why I suddenly am having problems when I've never had a reptile come down with MDB before but I have my suspicions. First - I underestimated the importance of gut-loading feeders. I've never been perfect about gutloading every meal but I realize I've gotten lazy about it especially with super-worms and meal-worms. Secondly I've been dusting with oyster-shell calcium. I don't know for a fact that this is a major problem but in my research for getting my tegu I've read that calcium made from oyster shells and can't properly be utilized by reptiles. I can't confirm that this is true but it is the only major thing that has changed in my husbandry recently. I'm steering clear of the stuff from now on just to be safe - not saying you need to do the same but you may want to consider it.

Fractures are treatable and a vet will typically splint the affected limb. Without having access to a vet though I'm not sure if you'd be able to effectively do the same yourself. Leos are really resilient animals though and I suspect he'll recover. I'd seriously look at MDB as a cause though as an injury that severe seems unlikely without him having sustained a fall or major traumatic injury.

Good luck and please keep us posted.

 

[LeoLover1]

Yeah i wasn't expecting this, I mean there both guaranteed females in a large amount of space would could have gone wrong? Plus as it seems I'm never done getting cages. I just bought one for Thesus and the baby though for some apparent reason all my best eaters have stopped eating so well, They now have to be syringe fed or lured out with the 1 Waxworm Followed by the 1 Mealworm trick. And then i have to buy another cage for Athena and then Neo... What am i supposed to do with a 20 Gallon if only 1 gecko stays in it. Any way yeah ill look off of Craigslist because i do that a lot but a lot of the time i have to make a far drive out if I'm going for the offer.

I picked up a 10 gal tank for $2 at a garage sale today. It was filthy though... hamsters are yucky!

 

[Geckomaster743]

I picked up a 10 gal tank for $2 at a garage sale today. It was filthy though... hamsters are yucky!

Good deal, But thats still nasty... You still have to go home and clean it

 

[Geckomaster743]

I've been in a similar situation the last few months. A few healthy geckos are very easy to take care of, a few sick geckos and the time commitment can get insane not to mention the vet bills. I've been keeping herps my whole life and I've never had a rash of problems like I have this year.

I'm really sorry to hear about the issues Artemis is having. It is hard to give any concrete advice without seeing him it seems unlikely that he'd end up with a fractured leg from a squabble with a cage mate unless there are other factors at play. Even without a fracture MDB can cause a gecko to drag their legs, especially their back legs. Additionally it does, of course, make their bones far more fragile and susceptible to fractures.

I recently learned the hard way that MDB can still occur even if you are religiously dusting every meal. I've never had a problem with MDB until recently when two geckos I hatched last year suddenly came down with eye problems and severe facial swelling.

I can't say 100% why I suddenly am having problems when I've never had a reptile come down with MDB before but I have my suspicions. First - I underestimated the importance of gut-loading feeders. I've never been perfect about gutloading every meal but I realize I've gotten lazy about it especially with super-worms and meal-worms. Secondly I've been dusting with oyster-shell calcium. I don't know for a fact that this is a major problem but in my research for getting my tegu I've read that calcium made from oyster shells and can't properly be utilized by reptiles. I can't confirm that this is true but it is the only major thing that has changed in my husbandry recently. I'm steering clear of the stuff from now on just to be safe - not saying you need to do the same but you may want to consider it.

Fractures are treatable and a vet will typically splint the affected limb. Without having access to a vet though I'm not sure if you'd be able to effectively do the same yourself. Leos are really resilient animals though and I suspect he'll recover. I'd seriously look at MDB as a cause though as an injury that severe seems unlikely without him having sustained a fall or major traumatic injury.

Good luck and please keep us posted.

Honestly i used to never dust, I bought Herpative and Repti - Cal but i have gotten lazy and not gutloaded like i should be. I have photos of Artimes from 3 - 5 monthes ago showing how she used to sleep. Her legs would be in this akward postion making me wonder if it was a sign of MBD or it was just natural. Achilles has never had food dusted but has NEVER gotten sick. He had gotten scared one day because of the scent of another male but that was it, No MBD, No Throw up, Bad poop, Etc hes been good all his life. And yeah in these Past few monthes ive had a harder time with my geckos. They randomly stop eatting ( Mainly the best eaters ). They fight more and require more and more seperation, And well as you can guess im up more at night and having to give ALOT more attention to the sick geckos. I'll upload the photos of Artimes showing her old sleeping habit back in the 20 Gallon. Another thing ive noticed is like a hunch in her back. She dosent sleep the right way. When she lies down the front of her body is flatish and the back as a random hump in between the leg area and right on top of the back. Ive made a couple of theories.

1. This is all a result of MBD and me not dusting.
2. This is the result of fighting between cage mates and over time the bone has gotten worse and pushed in to the body making Artimes feel more and more pain and making her walk and drag in a akward way. By the way ive noticed the legs in the back seem to be the case. I think im more confused on whats broken but i may have to call a vet and hopefully they will give some free advice, I was supposed to use my 300$ to buy 3 More cages. If i take her to a vet they may not get a chance to get new cages untill next year and i seriously would prefer to keep them in real enclouseres with lights, plants etc and not the ones serious breeders who keep them in cages that are dark, minimum space, bleak.

 

[Geckomaster743]

 

[Apocalypse910]

First of all I need to not post when tired - just realize I got really dyslexic with my acronyms in my last post MDB == MBD </face-palm>.

That hump in her back is very concerning, and would definitely support a diagnosis of MBD. It can manifest as limb/spine deformities, lethargy, lack of appetite, facial/joint swelling, tremors, and easily broken bones.

You need to address supplementation right away, younger growing geckos especially require extra calcium and seem to be more prone to MBD. This is also critically important if you are breeding as laying females require a ton of calcium both for their health and their eggs. If you aren't supplementing it is likely that your other geckos will start to exhibit symptoms soon if they aren't already. Severe MBD will cause their bones to become rubbery so they may appear to have bent weak limbs without having an actual fracture.

You should be dusting every meal with calcium. I'd suggest using a multivitamin once or twice a week but don 't use it with every feeding as some of the other critical vitamins can become toxic at high doses.

Gut-load all food for at least a day when you get it home. There are ready made mixes or you can make your own but be sure not to skip this step. I got complacent and while dusting alone seemed to be enough for my adults it was not nearly enough for my yearlings.

You should have a bottle-cap full of calcium in every cage so the geckos can get extra calcium if they are craving it - again make sure to use calcium and not multivitamin for this.

I know it is very difficult to pay for vet visits right now but Artimes should see a vet if at all possible. The vet can confirm the diagnosis and give her calcium injections as well as a calcium gluconate prescription. I will warn you that if she is severely affected it might be a long difficult road to recovery. I am trying one thing as my supply of calcium gluconate from the vet is running out. I am using a few drops of fluker's liquid calcium supplement mixed with repta-aid (repta-boost) and giving it to my sick reptiles. It seems to be helping my geckos and may help if you can't get to a vet but I wouldn't necessarily recommend it as my first course of action.

Even if there is a fracture from a fight I'd suspect MBD as the underlying cause especially if they haven't been receiving regular supplementation. I would make sure she's seperated from the other lizards asap as she is most likely very vulnerable to injury right now - Not to mention the risk to her health if she does breed in her current condition.

Good luck- again I know how difficult this sort of situation can be, hope everything works out.

 

[Geckomaster743]

First of all I need to not post when tired - just realize I got really dyslexic with my acronyms in my last post MDB == MBD </face-palm>.

That hump in her back is very concerning, and would definitely support a diagnosis of MBD. It can manifest as limb/spine deformities, lethargy, lack of appetite, facial/joint swelling, tremors, and easily broken bones.

You need to address supplementation right away, younger growing geckos especially require extra calcium and seem to be more prone to MBD. This is also critically important if you are breeding as laying females require a ton of calcium both for their health and their eggs. If you aren't supplementing it is likely that your other geckos will start to exhibit symptoms soon if they aren't already. Severe MBD will cause their bones to become rubbery so they may appear to have bent weak limbs without having an actual fracture.

You should be dusting every meal with calcium. I'd suggest using a multivitamin once or twice a week but don 't use it with every feeding as some of the other critical vitamins can become toxic at high doses.

Gut-load all food for at least a day when you get it home. There are ready made mixes or you can make your own but be sure not to skip this step. I got complacent and while dusting alone seemed to be enough for my adults it was not nearly enough for my yearlings.

You should have a bottle-cap full of calcium in every cage so the geckos can get extra calcium if they are craving it - again make sure to use calcium and not multivitamin for this.

I know it is very difficult to pay for vet visits right now but Artimes should see a vet if at all possible. The vet can confirm the diagnosis and give her calcium injections as well as a calcium gluconate prescription. I will warn you that if she is severely affected it might be a long difficult road to recovery. I am trying one thing as my supply of calcium gluconate from the vet is running out. I am using a few drops of fluker's liquid calcium supplement mixed with repta-aid (repta-boost) and giving it to my sick reptiles. It seems to be helping my geckos and may help if you can't get to a vet but I wouldn't necessarily recommend it as my first course of action.

Even if there is a fracture from a fight I'd suspect MBD as the underlying cause especially if they haven't been receiving regular supplementation. I would make sure she's seperated from the other lizards asap as she is most likely very vulnerable to injury right now - Not to mention the risk to her health if she does breed in her current condition.

Good luck- again I know how difficult this sort of situation can be, hope everything works out.

Thanks for replying fast enough, I some times begin to worry when no one comments and i feel like i need the extra support. And those tips should really help out! But yeah the moment i noticed this i took things in to my own hands. Shes been seperated in to a Box ( Decent space, But some thing ill never let her permenantly live in ). She already has a calcium dish ( I put it in there 3 days ago and while she was still with other geckos she had been licking every ounce of calcium she could, like it was desert. ). She has not eatten in 2 days but im thinking she ate the waxworm that was in there. Besides that when i get back from the pool shes going to be having 3 things.
1. A Syringe full of water ( Dehydration will make her recover slower and while shes prone because of this bone problem it may allow other problems to form such as other diseases since her system already has a MBD to deal with.
2. A Syringe full of Repta - Aid + Calcium ( I'll take your advice and get some more of it into her system, Besides she does need those Vitamins because shes not eating her insects )
3. Multi - Vitamins ( Im going to try giving her some powder to lick off of a bowl or some thing, I'll do that about Twice a week.

 

[Apocalypse910]

Thanks for replying fast enough, I some times begin to worry when no one comments and i feel like i need the extra support. And those tips should really help out! But yeah the moment i noticed this i took things in to my own hands. Shes been seperated in to a Box ( Decent space, But some thing ill never let her permenantly live in ). She already has a calcium dish ( I put it in there 3 days ago and while she was still with other geckos she had been licking every ounce of calcium she could, like it was desert. ). She has not eatten in 2 days but im thinking she ate the waxworm that was in there. Besides that when i get back from the pool shes going to be having 3 things.
1. A Syringe full of water ( Dehydration will make her recover slower and while shes prone because of this bone problem it may allow other problems to form such as other diseases since her system already has a MBD to deal with.
2. A Syringe full of Repta - Aid + Calcium ( I'll take your advice and get some more of it into her system, Besides she does need those Vitamins because shes not eating her insects )
3. Multi - Vitamins ( Im going to try giving her some powder to lick off of a bowl or some thing, I'll do that about Twice a week.

Sounds like a good plan - Keep in mind that repta-aid does have a pretty good vitamin mix so careful not to overdo it with the multivitamin. I'd also recommend pediatric electrolyte for hydration - it is cheap, available at any pharmacy, and works wonders.

 

[Geckomaster743]

Well Kelly, She hasnt eatten Solid food in days and im beginning to run out of Ideas besides syringe feeding. Khenut recommended me a Liquid/Paste that makes them hungry so i just may try that but she dosent show a slight interest in the Mealworms/Waxworms. I may try crickets but that would just be harder for her to catch. Ive also noticed the frequency of how she poops is extended, Maybe 3 days = 1 Poop which in some cases could mean shes getting clogged up? Ive also noticed that shes beginning to walk better but the way shes adapting is messing her bone structure or so i think. I may take her too see a vet because im beginning to get a bit more concerned but im trying to figure out on which one i should take her too. There is a Vet hospital in Plano but they work with tons of exotics and i havent really called in too see if they would be willing/can they take care of a leopard gecko. I may just use one of those Vets that specialize with herps that are near by though. Its just the expenses that are bugging me
Besides that her walking is starting to become a bit better!

 

[Apocalypse910]

The fact that she is walking better is an excellent sign. Recovery from MBD is not a quick process, look for improvements in movement and general activity level. Don't worry too much about her not taking solid food. I've had geckos go months without eating solid food when sick - a few days is honestly nothing. Leopard geckos tend to have large fat reserves which is part of what makes them so resilient. It would still be a good thing to get her checked by a vet if possible - but her lack of appetite isn't that much of a worry on its own. Keep an eye on her tail - as long as she has a decent amount of fat on her tail she'll likely be fine on the food front.

I'd keep feeding her by syringe for now. You probably know this but be sure not to force the food in her mouth- just let her lap at the tip of the syringe. I'd also keep the food somewhat dilute - they seem to take the food more readily and it saves time by getting them hydrated and fed at the same time. It can be difficult to ween them off the repta-aid, I've had success by offering a decapitated super-worm every few days. They will tend to lap at the super-worm guts and it usually eventually triggers their feeding response.

 

[Geckomaster743]

Alright, Id also like to ask why not force feed? Shes not a very good drinker so i do have to force feeder ( I dont put pressure on her mouth or make her drink it but if theres a drop on her mouth i wont allow her to leave with out drinking it because if i dont force her she wont drink and she will let her self die or atleast put her self in to a postion where shes twice as prone to getting worse ). Though i have seen her try to avoid any thing i give her now by refusing to eat it/drink it. Today she had Repti - Cal + Water in a syringe so i had her drink that and then Repta Aid is what ill be feeding her tonite. I'll also try to give her dead mealworms that have been dried or dead for a while so she wont exactly have to hunt for it. What do you think about that move? I dont want her to waste energy even though i encourage her to run so she gets the hang of walking but other then that she needs to conserve fat;

 

[Apocalypse910]

Another Guide you may find useful-
http://petreptilezone.blogspot.com/2010/05/how-to-feed-sick-leopard-gecko.html

BTW - how is her weight right now, is she skinny or does she still have a decent amount of tail fat?

You never want to force liquid into a gecko's mouth if you can avoid it - they can very easily inhale it and either choke, or develop a respiratory infection as a result. Usually I put a drop on their nose, they'll try to lick it off at which point I start adding more as fast as they lick it away.

A few pointers - combine the food and liquid. The more watered down mix is accepted more readily, and it saves the gecko the stress of two feedings. I also suspect that a syringe of repta aid and a syringe of water is likely far more of a liquid volume than she can handle.

I've found that some geckos take a while to get going, but once they do they'll lap down an entire syringe in a minute. It may take some patience but she will lap at it eventually. As for dosing every gecko is different but mine usually only accept about one small syringe of watered down repta-aid every other night. Go by the directions on the bottle for the calcium dosing and don't overdo it.

I personally would not bother with dried meal-worms - None of my geckos will touch them when they are in perfect health, let alone when their appetites are depressed. The only thing I've really had luck with them for is powdering and mixing with repta-aid to make a sort of stew for sick lizards - may help but it is really only something i do for extremely long term illness.

Fresh meal worms or super-worms with the heads cut off work very well because they smell strongly and the reptiles can lap at the guts which eventually leads to biting and eating. I could be wrong but in my experience the dried food is rarely if ever accepted willingly and definitely would not be my choice for enticing a sick gecko to eat. My geckos will almost always lap at the 'juice' from a freshly killed super-worm and will grab and eat the worm once they are ready. It honestly is not something I enjoy doing but the technique works pretty well.

Don't stress if she doesn't accept food immediately - they can go months without food if necessary and she isn't going to die from skipping a few meals. Don't force things, and don't stress her - this is going to take time. Again I know circumstances are tough right now but I would still advise a vet visit if possible. They can confirm the diagnosis of MBD, establish if there are any broken bones, and provide injections to help with her calcium levels and boost her appetite.

Hope to see improvement soon!