Calcium Gluconate (MBD Treatment)

[bitterbeauty]

Is it only available through a vet?

I ask because there is some calcium gluconate powder available on ebay (dietary supplement for vegetarians). Go on ebay and search calcium gluconate and check it out and tell me what you think. I realize this is intended for human use but I was just wondering is there a difference in maybe the dosage or something?

Im pretty sure one of my leos has MBD. She hasnt been quite right since the day I got her and now I have put my finger on it. (I noticed today when she went to bite a mealworm her jaw is quite flexible...not good) So I would like to get her started on some calcium gluconate asap.

I offer regular calcium along with calcium w/ D3 in a bowl in the viv but she never seemed interested. All of my other geckos are fine and enjoy making a mess of their calci dishes.

I am perfectly fine with asking my vet for the calcium gluconate but I would like to have some on hand at all times just in case. I feel horrible about this since this is such a preventable disease. :main_no:

 

[ElapidSVT]

because it's made for human consumption the quality standards are MUCH stricter. the government thinks humans are more important than the other animals on the planet.
lol

i use calcium supplements *every* feeding through dusting the prey; i dont' supply a dish full.

gl!

 

[RampantReptiles]

idk anything about calcium gluconate but you should be putting the calcium w/D3 on your food items and then the stuff without in a small dish. This ensures that your gecko is getting the D3 and the probability of D3 overdose is extremely low. They need to have the D3 at least a few times a week if not every feeding.

 

[bitterbeauty]

I just called the vet I usually use (they gave me baytril and parasite meds for Nala when she was sick) and they said they dont have an calcium gluconate. They could only offer an injection which I really rather NOT do. So hmmm... I guess I will call around to other vets in the area.

=[

So the calcium gluconate powder on ebay is human grade which should be even better than the animal grade calcium gluconate right?

Ive made a paste with regular calcium and water and I have been feeding that to her with a syringe.

 

[Khrysty]

Like Rob said, the calcium glucinate for humans is better quality. You would really have to check about dosage, though, to be sure you don't give your leo too much

 

[bitterbeauty]

I just found this online. Atleast I know the dosage of calcium gluconate now.

"Moderate to severe cases of MBD require the proper diet, temperatures, and light wavelengths as well as a more powerful calcium supplement than those found in pet stores. Oral administration of calcium glubionate (NeoCalglucon®, 1cc/kg PO bid prn) or injections of calcium lactate (Calphosan®, 250 mg/kg IV/IM, bid) or calcium gluconate (100 mg/kg IM qid prn) are generally prescribed by veterinarians. Mader (1993) reports faster recovery with calcitonin (Calcimar®, Miacalcin®, 50 IU/kg IM in front leg, repeated once a week for two weeks) when it is administered to iguanas who have been returned to normal serum calcium levels. Use of calcitonin before normal levels have been established, however, may cause hypocalcemic tetany and death. Mild cases, where the signs are felt or just barely visible, may successfully be treated by providing the proper environment and diet. In the case of diurnal lizards and chelonians, proper environment includes not only the proper temperature ranges and diet, but daily access to ultraviolet B wavelengths."

Leos dont need UVB light though.

 

[Khrysty]

I just found this online. Atleast I know the dosage of calcium gluconate now.

"Moderate to severe cases of MBD require the proper diet, temperatures, and light wavelengths as well as a more powerful calcium supplement than those found in pet stores. Oral administration of calcium glubionate (NeoCalglucon®, 1cc/kg PO bid prn) or injections of calcium lactate (Calphosan®, 250 mg/kg IV/IM, bid) or calcium gluconate (100 mg/kg IM qid prn) are generally prescribed by veterinarians. Mader (1993) reports faster recovery with calcitonin (Calcimar®, Miacalcin®, 50 IU/kg IM in front leg, repeated once a week for two weeks) when it is administered to iguanas who have been returned to normal serum calcium levels. Use of calcitonin before normal levels have been established, however, may cause hypocalcemic tetany and death. Mild cases, where the signs are felt or just barely visible, may successfully be treated by providing the proper environment and diet. In the case of diurnal lizards and chelonians, proper environment includes not only the proper temperature ranges and diet, but daily access to ultraviolet B wavelengths."

Leos dont need UVB light though.

No, i dont think you can go by these dosages at all. An iguana is like...50 to a hundred times bigger than a little leo.

 

[bitterbeauty]

Oh. Well I figured since it was per kg I could just convert it to per gram

 

[Khrysty]

Oh. Well I figured since it was per kg I could just convert it to per gram

Suppose that could probably work. There are a couple of exotic vets on this site. Maybe we should see if one of them will answer.

 

[Alusdra]

I wouldn't get the eBay supplement- even though it is 'human grade' supplements are not well regulated at all and may contain anywhere from 0-200% of what is stated on the label. Which might be ok for a human, but could kill your gecko. You could check on www.consumerlab.com to see if it passed their inspection or not. But even if it's good according to that site, I would be really hesitant to give that to a gecko without talking to a vet.

 

[JordanAng420]

I wouldn't get the eBay supplement- even though it is 'human grade' supplements are not well regulated at all and may contain anywhere from 0-200% of what is stated on the label. Which might be ok for a human, but could kill your gecko. You could check on www.consumerlab.com to see if it passed their inspection or not. But even if it's good according to that site, I would be really hesitant to give that to a gecko without talking to a vet.

Agreed...geckos are so small, even I don't feel comfortable sometimes doing conversions with that type of stuff...and like Alusdra said, you don't even know if it is what it says it is. Keep calling around if you feel you need the stuff, although expect any vet that does have it to want to examine your pet first, as it is illegal to prescribe medication to a patient that has never been examined. Good luck, and keep us updated

 

[bitterbeauty]

Okay. Well if I just continue to make a paste out of regular powdered calcium will she get better? (Im aware it will take much longer than with calcium gluconate).

Do you recommend that I use calci with or without D3 to make the paste and syringe feed her?

 

[bitterbeauty]

Anyone have any experience with Jurrisical Liquid Calcium Spray? Do you recommend it?

Most of the vet I have called said they could give her a injection of calcium. I really really dont feel comfortable with this. Any thoughts?

 

[Alusdra]

There is never and justification to treat ANY bone pathology with injectable calcium. Aside from being a dangerous practice, calcium injections have been shown to be painful to the patient and most importantly, can cause permanent damage to the patient's kidneys at high dosages. Long term therapy for NSHP should only be conducted with appropriate oral vitamin and mineral supplementation.

From: Mader D (MS, DVM, DABVP). Reptile Medicine and Surgery. Second Ed., p. 846. Saunders: 2006. (A great book! Expensive, though, thank goodness for libraries...)

It's actually in bold in the text. NSHP means nutritional secondary hyperparathyroidism (the fancy name for MBD).

 

[JordanAng420]

Doug Mader is a herp veteriarian GOD. I'd trust anything he says about herp medicine. :main_yes:

Edit: The least I can do is get his first name right lol

 

[bitterbeauty]

Okay so here is the game plan!

I bought a bottle of liquid calcium by Zilla (used to spray food items)

But under instructions is says for calcium deficiency give 3 drops a day orally.

ANDDDD.....A MAJOR INGREDIENT IS CALCIUM GLUCONATE!!! I was so excited when I read the ingrediants.

So Chloe will be getting 3 drops of it once a day for....a long long time I suppose or until I see improvement.

Thanks for all of your help guys! I will keep you updated.