calcium pockets

[sauroid]

calcium pockets: are they more prevalent among females than males? please enlighten. TIA

 

[Khrysty]

I've only seen them in my females, but there's a thread on here where someone was talking about their males having large calcium pockets. (if someone knows what I'm talking about, could you link the thread?)

I think it just depends on how much calcium you give the gecko/how much the gecko takes in.

 

[whkrazyk]

both my males and females have them, but my females are much more noticeable

 

[Baoh]

Outside of word-of-mouth, is there anything to indicate this isn't simply fat, rather than calcium deposits?

 

[Khrysty]

Outside of word-of-mouth, is there anything to indicate this isn't simply fat, rather than calcium deposits?

The context in which they appear, at least for me. My girls don't get them until they stop producing eggs, and removing the calcium from the cage makes them go away after a week or so.

 

[Baoh]

The context in which they appear, at least for me. My girls don't get them until they stop producing eggs, and removing the calcium from the cage makes them go away after a week or so.

Yolk requires lipids, too.

Have you ever seen them on a skinny gecko? If they were calcium, it would stand to reason they could be present on leaner animals that were supplied with sufficient calcium.

I'd like some sort of decent evidence. Oft repeated, which is what I see, doesn't mandate oft correct.

 

[Khrysty]

removing the calcium from the cage makes them go away

If it's not calcium pockets, it's strange that they'd go away after the calcium has been removed from the cage.

Other than that, nope, I have no proof.

 

[Baoh]

If it's not calcium pockets, it's strange that they'd go away after the calcium has been removed from the cage.

Other than that, nope, I have no proof.

Perhaps, or it could be an associated event, either mechanistically or by mere happenstance. In either case, I do appreciate you adding your anecdote.

 

[Paleofish]

calcium pockets: are they more prevalent among females than males? please enlighten. TIA

My male normal seems to get them more often then my female tremper.

You can see them in this pic really well.

 

[Bellalee]

Fat is notoriously a white pale color(i cant think of the word it's too early).. if you notice the packets they are clear.. therefore.. I doubt they can be fat pockets. If they are calcium pockets there is no proof that I know of.

 

[Bellalee]

Fat also.. cannot dissapear and reappear at the drop of a hat.

 

[Rythm]

I read somewhere, can't remember where unfortunatly, that these pockets may also be a means of protein storage. I agree that it is highly unlikely that this is fat, however it seems very reasonable that it is simply a storage area for molecules be it calcium, protein or anything in excess other than fat as fat is stored in the tail.

I unfortunatly have no proof as well, but am majoring in biology.

 

[Baoh]

What constitutes the drop of a hat? Lipolysis and lipogenesis can occur easily, depending upon environmental influences.

It would not be a protein storage area. Protein isn't stored beyond intracellular free amino acid pools, and that's not really considered storage in the first place as much as a working area for typical cellular processes, often involving ribosomal activity. Excess protein (beyond what can be utilized in a given period for a given demand) is converted to glucose for the most part. The glucose either circulates or is then synthesized into glycogen, depending upon Caloric balance. If glycogen stores are full, then the glucose can be shunted toward triglyceride formation and then that fat will be either used or stored (such as via ASP). Just because fat is stored in the tail doesn't mandate that fat is only stored in the tail. Especially if rate or volume in one depot becomes a bottleneck.

It could easily be some other type of storage area, though, although the ones I have come across were not clear, but white, which is consistent with WAT, however, where pigments begin and end muddies those waters.

 

[catvettech]

Fat also.. cannot dissapear and reappear at the drop of a hat.

I can attest to that!

The bulges are a sign of health - let's just leave it like that!

 

[catvettech]

What constitutes the drop of a hat? Lipolysis and lipogenesis can occur easily, depending upon environmental influences.

It would not be a protein storage area. Protein isn't stored beyond intracellular free amino acid pools, and that's not really considered storage in the first place as much as a working area for typical cellular processes, often involving ribosomal activity. Excess protein (beyond what can be utilized in a given period for a given demand) is converted to glucose for the most part. The glucose either circulates or is then synthesized into glycogen, depending upon Caloric balance. If glycogen stores are full, then the glucose can be shunted toward triglyceride formation and then that fat will be either used or stored (such as via ASP). Just because fat is stored in the tail doesn't mandate that fat is only stored in the tail. Especially if rate or volume in one depot becomes a bottleneck.

It could easily be some other type of storage area, though, although the ones I have come across were not clear, but white, which is consistent with WAT, however, where pigments begin and end muddies those waters.

Please just keep it simple.

 

[Rythm]

What constitutes the drop of a hat? Lipolysis and lipogenesis can occur easily, depending upon environmental influences.

It would not be a protein storage area. Protein isn't stored beyond intracellular free amino acid pools, and that's not really considered storage in the first place as much as a working area for typical cellular processes, often involving ribosomal activity. Excess protein (beyond what can be utilized in a given period for a given demand) is converted to glucose for the most part. The glucose either circulates or is then synthesized into glycogen, depending upon Caloric balance. If glycogen stores are full, then the glucose can be shunted toward triglyceride formation and then that fat will be either used or stored (such as via ASP). Just because fat is stored in the tail doesn't mandate that fat is only stored in the tail. Especially if rate or volume in one depot becomes a bottleneck.

It could easily be some other type of storage area, though, although the ones I have come across were not clear, but white, which is consistent with WAT, however, where pigments begin and end muddies those waters.

You make a valid point, but I think your question has been proved, no one has any other proof then experience and word of mouth. I'm sure most people on here are more concerned with the breeding and general health of their geckos rather then the intricate cellular details of them. So far everyone has said that they believe based out of common logic that these are calcium storage pockets, so whether or not they really on a cellular level, I'm not sure if any one has studied them enough to determine that for fact. However from everyone's general experience, they are indeed a sign of health, but also a sign to cut back on some form of supplementation which often seems to be associated with removal of calcium.
The original question of this post has been answered, but if you want solid proof you are going to have to probably either search else where or conduct studies yourself. I'm sure if you have a genetics question any number of people here could answer with solid fact.
Also when the term "drop of a hat was used" it was meant in an almost literal sense, these pockets will appear one day, and be gone by the next, fat deposits are not capable of that rapid lipogensis, and commonly there is no environmental change.
As far as pigmentation, there seems to be none in these areas, these pockets appear more like a blister having a more watery consistency.

 

[Baoh]

I can attest to that!

The bulges are a sign of health - let's just leave it like that!

What evidence is there to indicate the buldges are a sign of health or anything else?

 

[Baoh]

Please just keep it simple.

I'd rather keep it accurate.

 

[Baoh]

You make a valid point, but I think your question has been proved, no one has any other proof then experience and word of mouth. I'm sure most people on here are more concerned with the breeding and general health of their geckos rather then the intricate cellular details of them. So far everyone has said that they believe based out of common logic that these are calcium storage pockets, so whether or not they really on a cellular level, I'm not sure if any one has studied them enough to determine that for fact. However from everyone's general experience, they are indeed a sign of health, but also a sign to cut back on some form of supplementation which often seems to be associated with removal of calcium.
The original question of this post has been answered, but if you want solid proof you are going to have to probably either search else where or conduct studies yourself. I'm sure if you have a genetics question any number of people here could answer with solid fact.
Also when the term "drop of a hat was used" it was meant in an almost literal sense, these pockets will appear one day, and be gone by the next, fat deposits are not capable of that rapid lipogensis, and commonly there is no environmental change.
As far as pigmentation, there seems to be none in these areas, these pockets appear more like a blister having a more watery consistency.

A question isn't proven or not, the most common concerns don't hold relevance to this question, and logic is uncommon. I'm sure they haven't been studied enough for a determination, as I checked. It is an opinion that they are a sign of health, but with little in the way of evidence to point either way. It could simply be lipotrophic dysregulation, and that's hardly a sign of health in any creature, but it could be anything. However, it is not anything. It is something and not anything but that thing which remains currently undetermined. If they are a sign of (good) health, then they would not be a sign to cut back on supplementation. If they are a sign to cut back on supplementation, then they are not a sign of (good) health.

Actually, most people cannot answer genetic questions here based on solid fact, but reasonable conclusion based on observed phenotypic phenomena, as it's what they have access to and is the extent to which work has been performed. Genotyping was not done to determine this. It isn't fact. It's just functional belief with a lot of indirect evidence for support which is widely accepted. That is fine, but calling it solidly factual is inaccurate.

So, you're going by a day's passing for the fluctuation period? Then it is likely fluid. Unfortunately, I have had a few geckos which exhibit these pockets and the changes are not as swift as one day. Not even close in these animals. Negative changes for the female took a week, which could easily account for lipolytic and lipogenic events, and negative changes for the male are even less rapid. However, when increasing food intake, the gain is not nearly as sluggish as the loss. It could be fluid, fat depots, or other depots.

Some of my animals have more pigmented skin there and some have less. Goes both ways.

I am not currently interested in excising the tissue present for histological and elemental analysis, but I may change my mind. It wouldn't cost me a dime and I have all of the equipment available that I'd need, but I'm not too keen on the surgery. Like I said, though, I may change my mind.

 

[catvettech]

I'd rather keep it accurate.

Believe it or not!! There is a way to keep it simple & accurate. Your posts become too wordy and the readers lose interest. It takes a person who realizes just what the main points are and getting it across simply but accurately for all readers to understand. We are all not DVMs, Professors, Scientists you know. Just keep it simple - others will learn more if you do it this way. Just a little constructive criticism - take no offense - be open minded to it.