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dr_frnkblck
Guest
I hope I never have to do it, but what is the most "popular" (it doesn't seem like the right term involving euthanasia) way to euthanize hatchlings that have severe problems?
Tony C
Wayward Frogger
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Feeding to a larger predator seems to be a widely used method.
lillith
lillith's leo lovables
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I wouldn't call it widely used, or humane. Get a CO2 chamber. You can get the small CO2 tanks at hardware stores, then all you need is an airtight container for it and the gecko.
I am really beginning to think we need a sticky on this, I keep getting slightly nauseous from some of the suggestions that get made.
Please do a search with the keywords "humanely euthanize" . That should help, some.
Srt14292
Est; 1992
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Thats a good idea Jan, I have to say one of the most "popular" used by people who have no access and want to end the suffering would be to put your gecko in the fridge till it goes to sleep, and place in the freezer, something I hope I never have to do but apon reading Janece' post I would tend to sway towards the co2 chamber.
Tony C
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CO2 euthanasia is not effective on reptiles, and freezing is quite painful, it is not the peaceful end most people imagine. I don't have time right now but I will dig up sources later and post them.
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dr_frnkblck
Guest
Thanks. I tried searching but I guess I was using the wrong search words.
snowgyre
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There is a whole suite of scientific, peer-reviewed literature that concludes that death by suffocation (ie. CO2 chambers) is cruel. As brutal as it sounds, there is no faster death than smashing the head of a gecko under a large stone or hammer. The only true reason people think it's cruel is because it can be messy, but it's effective. Honestly, I'd rather have my head smashed than suffocate or freeze to death. Even death by larger predator, though "natural", can be cruel. Nature doesn't have ethics.
Tony C
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All emphasis is mine.
From the AVMA:
Carbon dioxide—Amphibians,1 reptiles,1 and fish may be euthanatized with CO2. Loss of consciousness develops rapidly, but exposure times required for euthanasia are prolonged. This technique is more effective in active species and those with less tendency to hold their breath.
Cooling—It has been suggested that, when using physical methods of euthanasia in ectothermic species, cooling to 4 C will decrease metabolism and facilitate handling, but there is no evidence that whole body cooling reduces pain or is clinically efficacious. Local cooling in frogs does reduce nociception, and this may be partly opioid mediated. Immobilization of reptiles by cooling is considered inappropriate and inhumane even if combined with other physical or chemical methods of euthanasia. Snakes and turtles, immobilized by cooling, have been killed by subsequent freezing.This method is not recommended. Formation of ice crystals on the skin and in tissues of an animal may cause pain or distress. Quick freezing of deeply anesthetized animals is acceptable.
From the University of Minnesota
Inhalants (Isoflurane or CO2): require long exposure times to achieve death. They should be followed with physical methods after loss of consciousness. CO2 can be bubbled into a closed container for at least 30 seconds to displace O2. Isoflurane is administered by extended induction. Appropriate for: fish and some fully aquatic forms of amphibians. Not recommended for land-dwelling amphibians or reptiles due to their ability to breath-hold for long periods of time and survives long periods of anoxia.
Thermal shock (freezing): controversial method since ice crystals may form in larger animals prior to death, causing pain. Only permissible with small fish.
From the AVMA:
Carbon dioxide—Amphibians,1 reptiles,1 and fish may be euthanatized with CO2. Loss of consciousness develops rapidly, but exposure times required for euthanasia are prolonged. This technique is more effective in active species and those with less tendency to hold their breath.
Cooling—It has been suggested that, when using physical methods of euthanasia in ectothermic species, cooling to 4 C will decrease metabolism and facilitate handling, but there is no evidence that whole body cooling reduces pain or is clinically efficacious. Local cooling in frogs does reduce nociception, and this may be partly opioid mediated. Immobilization of reptiles by cooling is considered inappropriate and inhumane even if combined with other physical or chemical methods of euthanasia. Snakes and turtles, immobilized by cooling, have been killed by subsequent freezing.This method is not recommended. Formation of ice crystals on the skin and in tissues of an animal may cause pain or distress. Quick freezing of deeply anesthetized animals is acceptable.
From the University of Minnesota
Inhalants (Isoflurane or CO2): require long exposure times to achieve death. They should be followed with physical methods after loss of consciousness. CO2 can be bubbled into a closed container for at least 30 seconds to displace O2. Isoflurane is administered by extended induction. Appropriate for: fish and some fully aquatic forms of amphibians. Not recommended for land-dwelling amphibians or reptiles due to their ability to breath-hold for long periods of time and survives long periods of anoxia.
Thermal shock (freezing): controversial method since ice crystals may form in larger animals prior to death, causing pain. Only permissible with small fish.
Tony C
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Quick and effective, but not many people will have the stomach for it. Feeding the hatchling to be culled to a large predator such as a monitor, crocodilian, pyxie frog, or others will result in a very quick death, the predator gains the enrichment of hunting a relatively natural prey animal, and the body is not wasted.
ReptarNDukeNukem
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If I have to cull Leo's in the future I will give them to my brother's friend who has a bearded dragon to eat,I know it might see harsh but it will be effective and fast and it is the natural selection.
marraeco8311
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Beardies?
Bearded dragons may not be the nicest predator to have do it if you are really going for humane. They are picky eaters and tend to "pick at" their food rather than actually attack like other larger predators. The simplest manor would be take it to the vet's but, they will stick it in an isoflurane chamber and then the freezer or inject it with euthasol, so your choice. Some vets are really cheap for this. Others are not.
Bearded dragons may not be the nicest predator to have do it if you are really going for humane. They are picky eaters and tend to "pick at" their food rather than actually attack like other larger predators. The simplest manor would be take it to the vet's but, they will stick it in an isoflurane chamber and then the freezer or inject it with euthasol, so your choice. Some vets are really cheap for this. Others are not.
Enigmatic_Reptiles
Quality is Everything
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The only way I believe that you can put a gecko down with no pain is with a fatal blow to the head (the whole hammer thing). Feeding to another predator is good as well, I just don't have anything right now. I love leopard geckos too but if you honestly cared about it and wanted to put it out of its misery then man/woman up and do so.
This is a topic no one likes to hear or think about but if you wanna breed then it is something you have to consider as a possible situation. Do whats best for the animal not your conscience.
This is a topic no one likes to hear or think about but if you wanna breed then it is something you have to consider as a possible situation. Do whats best for the animal not your conscience.
Srt14292
Est; 1992
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To be fair I've seen some sick stuff in my time (I wont go into it cause I will definately get cautioned) but even I don't think I would be able to smash a leos head in with a hammer, I think I would just have to feed it to Ojo..Seems only fair that the gecko would go out of pain quickly.
Enigmatic_Reptiles
Quality is Everything
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Im not saying it will be easy by any means. I for one am all about trying to preserve the life of a leo...and have plenty of rescue leos to prove it. But if the gecko is living in pain and unable to recover or something that would bring you to the point of easing its suffering THEN and only then should you kill them. And if you have to put them down then I personally will do whats best for them. Until someone can create or pitch an alternative method which is effective and painless to the gecko, I think its only fair to do whats best for THEM. But to touch back on my previous statement...try, try, and try to save the gecko first. They can recover from some crazy stuff. Culling is a LAST resort.
herpencounter
Herpencounter.com
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For me, the most ethical way to euthanize a gecko is to feed it... Quick death, you don't waist the body, and makes a good nutritious meal. I have a lizard eating snake and I am sure my beardeds would love it lol.
J.
J.
StopperExotics
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Just my two cents; if you really want to breed Leopard Geckos/care for them, then it is your responsibility to humanely euthanize these animals. If you have a hard time finding the money to have these animals euthanized by a veterinarian, then you've no business breeding them. You have to remember, at this point you have brought this life in to the world and it is in no way just a "body" or "shell."
I ask you all this. Would you smash your dog's head with a sledge hammer to "humanely euthanize it?" No. Absolutely not; you'd do what all good dog owners would do, and take the poor creature to the vet and have them humanely euthanize that animal.
I'm sorry, but I just cannot stomach what's being posted here, between effectively "gassing" these animals, smashing their heads in, or putting them in the fridge/freezer to die of hypothermia is absolutely terrifying.
I ask you all this. Would you smash your dog's head with a sledge hammer to "humanely euthanize it?" No. Absolutely not; you'd do what all good dog owners would do, and take the poor creature to the vet and have them humanely euthanize that animal.
I'm sorry, but I just cannot stomach what's being posted here, between effectively "gassing" these animals, smashing their heads in, or putting them in the fridge/freezer to die of hypothermia is absolutely terrifying.
snowgyre
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Killing is killing, death is death, and passing off killing to a veterinarian is simply shifting the responsibility of the animal to someone else. There's nothing wrong with taking an animal to the vet to get them euthanized, but passing it off as the only way to humanely kill an animal is ridiculous. Euthanasia is just a fancy word for humanely killing an animal.
The gecko doesn't care if you spend $0 or $100 on it to kill it. So long as death is instantaneous, the method doesn't matter.
The gecko doesn't care if you spend $0 or $100 on it to kill it. So long as death is instantaneous, the method doesn't matter.
Baoh
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I currently either use my monitor or a cooling-freezing two-step method. Sometimes both.
Before I had the monitor, I had some large cichlids and snapping turtles, among other things, and they had the same role in this context.
I have a number of crustaceans that could do the job, but they are slow and therefore the process would be needlessly painful and prolonged.
CO2 is far from painless. Headaches and headache equivalents are excruciating before death occurs in many species.
Additionally, neural transmission at the level of the cell, in my direct experience, is heavily impaired when sufficient cooling has occurred. Stating otherwise, outside of certain especially cold adapted species, is a bit...unfounded. That includes if a supposedly credible source makes such a statement without the experimental data to back up the declaration. Most times I see this used, an appeal to authority fallacy is invoked. If evidence, which means a dedicated study and nothing less rigorous, is credited after such a statement, it should be examined to see exactly what the procedure and conditions were. Context is everything.
A smashing blow to the head would likely be highly effective. Likewise for a gunshot to a dog or other animal. I would medically euthanize in case where it is my dog, as I would desire for a maximum of gentle handling prior to death. However, if a mortal wounding occurred out in the field, I would use a gun or suitable alternative to end my friend's suffering despite whatever personal grief that might cause me.
Before I had the monitor, I had some large cichlids and snapping turtles, among other things, and they had the same role in this context.
I have a number of crustaceans that could do the job, but they are slow and therefore the process would be needlessly painful and prolonged.
CO2 is far from painless. Headaches and headache equivalents are excruciating before death occurs in many species.
Additionally, neural transmission at the level of the cell, in my direct experience, is heavily impaired when sufficient cooling has occurred. Stating otherwise, outside of certain especially cold adapted species, is a bit...unfounded. That includes if a supposedly credible source makes such a statement without the experimental data to back up the declaration. Most times I see this used, an appeal to authority fallacy is invoked. If evidence, which means a dedicated study and nothing less rigorous, is credited after such a statement, it should be examined to see exactly what the procedure and conditions were. Context is everything.
A smashing blow to the head would likely be highly effective. Likewise for a gunshot to a dog or other animal. I would medically euthanize in case where it is my dog, as I would desire for a maximum of gentle handling prior to death. However, if a mortal wounding occurred out in the field, I would use a gun or suitable alternative to end my friend's suffering despite whatever personal grief that might cause me.
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