DOA with Ship your reptiles. Please help.

[SpaceCadet]

Hello,

This morning I was notified that my leopard gecko was DOA. This is devastating as she was a beloved pet and I had traded her with someone. We were supposed to trade back the offspring we got from each others geckos.

I used the SYR shipping service and purchased insurance. I packaged my gecko according to their standards with their supplies including an insulated shipping box, 40 hour heat pack, some green packing peanuts for cushion and a well ventilated container with shredded paper towel bedding. My gecko was healthy, vibrant, eating...nothing wrong with her, but this morning she was DOA. There was space in the box for air, the heat pack was good. I don't know what went wrong besides possible rough handling by Fedex. When I dropped her off at the FedEx location they carelessly handled the box. I felt a pang of anxiety and had a hard time leaving the store..I should have trusted my instincts. Could she have died from stress?

I called SYR and they said the insurance only covers LATE deliveries and it's my responsibility to correctly pack and ship a healthy gecko. I did correctly ship her and she was healthy. I included both photos from before she was shipped and after when she was DOA. I'm waiting for a response and don't know what to do.

Does anyone else have any experience with this?

 

[Superior Reptiles]

Sorry for your loss. I personally don't have any experience with shipping them but you should call FedEx because if your gecko was 100% healthy and packaged correctly then it was their fault and they should do something about it.

 

[scm133]

I am so sorry. This is my worse fear when shipping. May I ask what were the day time temps at your hub, and destination? I also use SYR and their insurance. Just realized I had a false security with the insurance ......especially when you followed their guidelines.


GulfCoastGeckos

 

[SpaceCadet]

I am so sorry. This is my worse fear when shipping. May I ask what were the day time temps at your hub, and destination? I also use SYR and their insurance. Just realized I had a false security with the insurance ......especially when you followed their guidelines.


GulfCoastGeckos

The day time temps were 70 where I am and 66 where the recipient was. I followed their guidelines exactly, including using their supplies and using overnight shipping. After looking at the photos, which brought me to tears, it is apparent that the gecko suffered internal damage during shipping. The bruising indicates it happened while she was alive. She was perfectly healthy prior to shipping. I used a 7x7x6" box as advised by a representative of SYR. It is possible the Fedex employees simply felt like throwing her around because she was in such a small box, though it was clearly labeled "live harmless reptile, handle with care, perishable". I am heartbroken and have still not received a response from SYR regarding the matter. When I initially called they said the insurance only applies to late packages, not packages carelessly handled by postal employees. If you do everything right and FedEx just doesn't care and kills your animal then your out of luck.

 

[rothsauce]

"ShipYourReptiles Live Arrival Insurance does not cover injuries incurred during shipping, whether the package is delivered late or on time. This includes dropped tails, neurological claims, etc. It is the responsibility of the shipper to ensure proper packaging and a properly packaged animal will arrive safe and unharmed."

However,

"If the package is delivered 60 seconds or more after the FedEx guaranteed delivery time, it is considered late."

Maybe that could be a loophole?
Though the whole claim makes them come off as complete jerks, they can do no wrong and it is your fault no matter what if the animal is DOA. What a load!

 

[SpaceCadet]

I'm hoping there is a loophole in that first quote about "a properly packaged animal will arrive safe and unharmed". I meticulously packaged the animal to their standards yet it still arrived DOA.

I sent them an email with loads of photos including the DOA, the packaging I used AND photos of my gecko taken before shipping proving she was alive and healthy. The man on the phone said to send pics and he would "see what he could do", but so far no word. I have tried calling and emailing with no response...


Their fine print and claims process make the whole thing seem like a big scam...they can never truly be at fault for a DOA it seems...

 

[rothsauce]

Neither DOA or injury.

What bothers me is the 'If it's 60 seconds 'late' and DOA, we'll do something about that - but not before'.
DOA is DOA.

I hope they take this more seriously.

 

[indyana]

If you look at the shipping terms on pretty much any shipping service (UPS, FedEx, etc.), they are not really responsible for a lot. Where I work, we once got into a fight with UPS regarding a damaged shipment; the box had clearly been backed over by a truck. At best, they'll refund you the cost of shipping or estimated cost of the animal, but unless someone got a video of an employee mishandling the package, there isn't too much they can do.

So sorry that you lost your gecko. There are risks with shipping animals, and you had some bad luck this time.

 

[rothsauce]

My fiance is a delivery driver for Staples, most people have seen the videos where people tape a driver mishandling a package but not many realize how many packages are also packed into a delivery truck incorrectly.
At that point all the driver can do is deliver the product, and see if they will send it back with the driver or keep it for evidence if they want to call customer service.

There are drivers out there that mishandle packages, but there are also loaders that do just as much, sometimes even more, damage.

 

[scm133]

There was a lot of bad weather this last few days. Was there any weather alerts at the mid point hub or destination? What was the mid point hub and the destination?


GulfCoastGeckos

 

[scm133]

In my opinion
Since SYR uses Fed Ex and it is an obvious mishandling situation, they should file a claim on your behalf. If FedEx is not reprimanded, then this will continue,


GulfCoastGeckos

 

[VampyreByte]

Just out of curiousity, where exactly did you put the heat pack in the box? And how did you put it in?

 

[SpaceCadet]

Just out of curiousity, where exactly did you put the heat pack in the box? And how did you put it in?

I taped the heat pack to the underside of the lid, per the instructions.

SYR got back to me today and said it was my fault for using a heat pack because the temperatures were about 70. Unfortunately this still doesn't explain the bruising. The temperature fluctuates, I am in Oregon and the low for that day was 45. Had I NOT used a heat pack she would have froze to death.

Damned if you do damned if you don't. I'm dropping it now as they are no help and it is only more painful to keep bringing it up with them and talking about my dead pet.

I feel bad for the recipient as well and will be providing her with a new gecko of the same quality.


In conclusion SYR will only -maybe- cover the cost of your DOA animal if it is late.

 

[scm133]

38-70°F: Use a heat pack per our directions.

70-92°F: No heat pack required.
This is their guidelines
....so if the day time temp was not higher than 70, I would think a heat pack would be used, especially if like you said the destination highs were in the 60's. Soooo confused:main_no:

 

[scm133]

I want to add something else that I have learned, and would like to pass on:

When I ship, I always email SYR and give them the temps of all locations, and double check if heat pack is needed.
I never use the 7x7x6 if I am also using a heat or cold pack.... I use the 12x9x6.
Always put the deli cup on the bottom, and pack your newspaper, styro peanuts on top. This gives a big space between the heat pack and the gecko.
I am not criticizing your packaging Space Cadet, I know you followed their instructions. This is just added info for anyone reading this, that maybe first time shippers. We all have the same goal...that is to ship our leos safely.

 

[SpaceCadet]

I want to add something else that I have learned, and would like to pass on:

When I ship, I always email SYR and give them the temps of all locations, and double check if heat pack is needed.
I never use the 7x7x6 if I am also using a heat or cold pack.... I use the 12x9x6.
Always put the deli cup on the bottom, and pack your newspaper, styro peanuts on top. This gives a big space between the heat pack and the gecko.
I am not criticizing your packaging Space Cadet, I know you followed their instructions. This is just added info for anyone reading this, that maybe first time shippers. We all have the same goal...that is to ship our leos safely.

I am realizing in hindsight that I should have used a larger box. The only reason I used the smaller one is because I emailed SYR asking about the size box I should use as I was a first time shipper and wanted to do EVERYTHING correctly. The told me that the 7x7x6 one would work fine for an adult leopard gecko. I told them her weight and age and they told me to go with the 7x7x6, but to use a larger container than the one provided in the shipping kit- which I did.

I know now that had I used a larger box she would have had more buffer from the rough handling. Instead of being slammed around in her little box, she would have had the packing peanuts and space to cushion the movements. The temperature was not the problem, not to mention the fluctuations in temperatures as she traveled across the country from Oregon to Alabama. Had I not used a heat pack she would have died of hypothermia on some truck switching planes, or during one of the many passes through hands and trucks on the way to her destination. SYR would have blamed me for not using a heat pack knowing most of her delivery time would be spent over night, when temperatures are coldest. The temperatures still don't explain the bruising on her chest and belly. Had this been the typical bruising you see post-mortem the blood would have pooled on her ventral side (on her back) due to the fact she was belly up. To me, the chest and belly bruising indicates this happened while she was alive, during shipment, due to trauma. I explained all of this to SYR, but they ignored it. I explained to them that the size of the box I was told to use was likely the reason she died, but they ignored it. I have had less secure shipments of leopard geckos arrive safely during fluctuations in temperature between locations simply because they were in a larger box with more cushioning.

As horrible as it is, SYR is still the best way to ship your reptiles because they are the only thing available at all that gives ANY kind of guarantee on live arrival (please correct me if I'm wrong, I'd like to see competitors). I'm sure the claims process is grueling because despite everything you do there are so many variables they can try to pin on you. The fact that I know this was due to injury and they are blaming it on temperature really makes me angry, but the only thing I can do is be better prepared for next time. I don't have the energy or emotional capacity to deal with a business who's end goal is money.

Thank you for your advice, I really do appreciate it and I know you aren't criticizing me. In hindsight I know I should have gone with a larger box despite what the SYR representative told me to use. I should have trusted my instincts when I dropped her off and felt that fear of something going wrong because of the obvious immediate mishandling I witnessed. In the future I will use a larger box with more space between the gecko, heat pack and sides of the box.

 

[SpaceCadet]

I thought it was relevant to share the email I received from SYR regarding the size of the box and their response. The are obviously giving bad advice to first time shippers.

 

[SpaceCadet]

This is my last update. I was told to use that size box and then just now was told it is not advised to use a heat pack in that size box, but the shipping kit sold on their website advises the use of a heat pack in that size box.

This is a bunch of bull, but I am providing this just so everyone can see what the customer service is like and what they can expect if something goes wrong. First they blamed the heat, then after proving it was injury they changed their story to say it was air flow that was the problem. Either way it was the size of the box that caused the problem.

 

[Robyn@SYR]

Hi SpaceCadet, we are very sorry for the loss of your gecko. It is always hard to lose an animal, we never like to see that.

Kathy@SYR has been emailing to go over some of the finer details of packaging and heat pack use, that is correct.

Your gecko wasn't injured, it was overheated. Damage and bruising that you see is from the animal being overheated, dying and starting to decompose.

The main issue with the shipment was temperatures. I believe earlier in the thread you said it was 70F. But when we pulled up the high temp for your zip code 97124 it was 82F for the shipping day. That is already quite warm. Compound that daytime high with a small box and heat pack situated right next to the gecko container and you have a definite overheating issue.

We try very hard to provide shippers with the right info and support they need to ship their animals safely and successfully. I believe someone earlier in the thread quoted from the SYR Get Help section on regulating the temperature of your package and heat pack use.

I don't think you maliciously packed the animal, of course not, it is a tragic mistake.

FedEx doesn't offer ANY coverage for live shipments. No on-time guarantees, no live arrival guarantees. If they ship a package to the bottom of the ocean by mistake, it is still NOT covered. That is outlined in the live reptile certification contract. They opt out of any liability or refunds. That is exactly why we created the SYR On-Time and Live Arrival Insurance program.

But it is not "anything goes insurance". It covers mistakes or errors by the SYR service, by FedEx, by delays, mechanical issues, misroutes, etc.

We absolutely hate to see DOAs due to heat pack use. But as rare as DOAs are, that is the most common reason. Too many heat packs used, hand warmers used (they get too hot!), heat packs used in warm weather, no heat pack used in freezing weather. We try very hard to provide conservative temperature guidelines that give everyone the best chance of success.

But 82F for a daytime high is awfully hot. If the high was 72F and a heat pack was still used, that would have been outside of our recommended guidelines (over 70F- no heat pack), but the gecko would have most likely been fine. 82F is a very different story. The gecko/snake/lizard/frog has no where to get away from the high temps, they are overcome by the heat and perish. Heartbreaking.

I understand this shipment was part of a trade. I will offer you a free shipping label to return the animal you received back to the other party, no charge. You can contact me directly for that- [email protected]

This week was BRUTAL for DOAs. Three of them. Your gecko and two bearded shipments. All used heat packs. The bearded shipments were coming from highs of 86F+. Same issue, the animal was just overwhelmed by the heat pack use.

I am really sorry for your loss. I know you are not a breeder/business, and this was a beloved pet, that makes it even harder.

 

[Robyn@SYR]

Looks like we crossed timelines while I was writing my own reply. I will take a look at your previous replies now as well, thanks for posting.