Ethics on selling Giant herps

reptinut

New Member
Messages
150
Location
NY
i'm just curious about y'alls opinion about breeding giant herps (reticuated pythons, sulcatas, iguanas, etc.). At this point, I don't know what to think any more!
 
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Andrew

Guest
I don't see anything wrong with it. Yeah a lot get mistreated, but that goes for any animal.
 

reptinut

New Member
Messages
150
Location
NY
I guess I set up this thread more to answer my own questions. I've got no problem wiith responsible people keeping giant herps. The problem is, most people who buy them have no idea what there getting into when they make that purchase. I read 1 out of 12 owners who first get an iguana end up realizing they cant take care of the iguana. Its like breeding dogs and cats: If most end up in rescue centers, why breed them? But banning giant herps takes the fun away from experienced keepers...I'm stuck! Someone pursuade me!
 

Barbel

New Member
Messages
384
Location
Phoenix
Most people will probably not agree with me, but I personally believe that all animals, including cats and dogs, are way too accessible to people. The majority of people in this world are way too irresponsible to care for any animal. They think they it will just be something fun or cool to have, but don't take a second to investigate the actual work, time and money needed to properly care for it. That is why so many are abused and end up rehomed, in shelters or dead.
Some of the abuse is often unknown to the owner as well. The best example of this pertains to red eared sliders. They are typically purchased on a whim because they are so small and cute. They are kept in small tanks without proper lighting and supplements and then develop MBD, don't grow properly and then die all because the owner didn't take 30 minutes to google them before or even after they purchased them. This can be applied to almost any pet though. I see posts on CL all the time with people saying "I've been potty training my puppy for the past four days and it still pees on the floor! Any tips, or I am going to get rid of it." WELL DUH!! It takes months of daily practice to fully potty train a puppy.
I really think there should be higher restrictions on who is allowed to breed and sell any type of animal. Too many people run out and buy a male and female of whatever thinking they are going to make some easy big bucks and then don't have the slightest clue as to what they are doing and it is the animals that suffer. I also think there should be restrictions on who is allowed to buy pets. If you are truly interested in a particular animal and you REALLY want to own it, then you will do whatever it takes to buy it, even if that means taking a test and getting a permit. That would weed out most, if not all, of the irresponsible people because irresponsible people do want to take the time and go through a process like that.
I think that truly passionate animal breeders/owners would agree that they would be more than willing to take a test and buy a permit if that allowed them to participate in a hobby they fully enjoyed.
Now, I am rational person and I know that none of the ideas I stated above will ever happen, but it would be nice if they did. What is more likely to happen is that these large or "dangerous" animals will be banned, just because it is an easier route for the government to take. The only ones to suffer will be the responsible, knowledgeable owners and the animals.
 

reptinut

New Member
Messages
150
Location
NY
barbel, you made several good points, however i have one to bring up: several giant herps are cites appendix two species (threatened), such as iguanas of all types, sulcatas, etc. So does this make it right to breed them? People, please respond. I'd like to hear a wide range of opinions on this subject
 

Barbel

New Member
Messages
384
Location
Phoenix
barbel, you made several good points, however i have one to bring up: several giant herps are cites appendix two species (threatened), such as iguanas of all types, sulcatas, etc. So does this make it right to breed them? People, please respond. I'd like to hear a wide range of opinions on this subject
I think it is okay to breed threatened animals. Zoos and animal sanctuaries do it all the time with endangered species to help maintain their population, even if it is just in captivity. That being said though, I DO NOT think it is okay to continue to take wild threatened species out of their environment. We have plenty of breeders producing these animals every year, so I do not see the necessity in continuing to import wild caught animals. If importation is stopped, this will allow the species to maintain its wild population while still allowing breeders to produce the animals they love.
We personally do not and will not buy wild caught animals or captive hatched animals; it's just not something we support.
 

Halley

Senior Member
Messages
4,669
Location
Missouri
I agree that permits would be a good idea, especially on large, potentially dangerous animals.

As far as WC, CH animals go I really think it depends on the species. I don’t think it’s a bad idea to have WC animals as long as measures are taken to make sure the wild population is able to sustain itself, but if it’s an endangered species I don’t think it should be allowed to take more out of the wild, the hobbyist, breeders & zoos should just breed what they have in captivity already.

As far as ethics go on breeding large animals, I don’t think it’s unethical but as I stated before I think permits should be in place. There are just too many irresponsible owners out there.
 

reptinut

New Member
Messages
150
Location
NY
Hers some food for thought: Wild Caught animals make the hobby what it is today, and they can introduce new blood lines in breeding projects. I beleve in more cases then not importing reptiles, and animals in general is wrong.
 
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Nigel4less

Guest
Hers some food for thought: Wild Caught animals make the hobby what it is today, and they can introduce new blood lines in breeding projects. I beleve in more cases then not importing reptiles, and animals in general is wrong.
Or we can get separate bloodlines from Europe, or Asia ;)
 

Barbel

New Member
Messages
384
Location
Phoenix
Hers some food for thought: Wild Caught animals make the hobby what it is today, and they can introduce new blood lines in breeding projects. I beleve in more cases then not importing reptiles, and animals in general is wrong.
Importation definitely played a very important and necessary role in developing the hobby to what it is today. It was a crucial factor 20-30 years ago, but in today's hobby it is no longer necessary. We have enough animals and diversity, IMO, to continue to grow the hobby without disturbing the environment.
 

Joao

v Snowflake v
Messages
174
Location
Jersey
It’s a viscous circle. If owning a pet involves permits and screening etc etc… More than half of us wouldn’t be here. Your chain petstores wouldn’t be around and prices of animal caring products would be through the roof. Most of the products that helps us with our animals wouldn’t even exist. Illegal smuggling and sales of exotic animals would kill off hundreds of species.



It would problably be even worse since there would be a huge lack of care info for animals, so people would be relying on breeders for info, and lets face it.. most breeders keep their animals in small enclosures with bare minimum requirments.

I couldn’t believe some of the care info I heard come out of breeders mouths at the last reptile show I went to.



Just because people have to go through a “screening” process to own an animal doesn’t mean that that animal will be well taken care of, either… For example…People with horrible credit have to go through way more trouble to buy a car than people with excellent credit, but they still end up buying that BMW or mercedes and then beat the puss out of it until they reposses it. (Im not saying everyone with bad credit does that. its just an example)



No matter how you cut it… there is an up and down to everything. Look at the human race. Some humans are living the good life while others are in slums.



Now to reply to the original post… I think state laws prohibiting the sale of certain reptiles at pet stores should be put in place and enforced. NJ doesn’t allow the sale of turtles under 4 inches at pet stores, so you never see turtles for sale here since people only want them small and cute. Whoever wants a turtle here will have to look up online turtle sellers or breeders. If you want one that bad, more than likely you will find the proper care information you need while trying to buy one.



Banning sales of iguana’s and other specific larger pets at stores is in my opinion the best way of helping the issue.
 

Dog Shrink

Lost in the Lizard World
Messages
2,799
Location
NW PA.
I think that making people get permits for exotics, like a lot of places already do, like here in Erie you have to have an exotics permit to own a ferret, would certinaly help a few things. Irresponsible owners, and maybe even some of the national debt (well maybe on more of a local level but...). Here in Erie it is already illegal to own snakes and most reptiles within the city limits, altho I can't imagine how they really enforce that one.
 

latshki

Breeder in the making
Messages
485
Location
PEI Canada
i think there should be permits for snakes over 12ft and lizards over 6ft and sulcattas arnt that bad its just info needs to be updated but thats never going to happen
if you want to keep a giant you should have to prove your self capable
 

clemsonguy1125

New Member
Messages
282
Location
North Carolina
I agree to whats said to some degree. I think the biggest problem with selling iguanas is the low price along with other large reptile. A small green iquana sells for around 20 bucks on average. People see the low price and the cool animal and buy them. They do not realize that they get several feet long. If they were say 70 dollars each, that would cut down on buying on a impulse. IMO, no reptile should be sold for below 40 dollars.
 
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