Fixing the reptile market-a dissertation

[Dactylusaddict]

I havent been back to the hobby for very long,and when involved before I was extremely young. I got out of my last collection at age 19, at that point Cresteds were just beginning to hit their peak in popularity, Leopard Geckos and Ball pythons were firmly ensconced as king of the reptile world. My parents funded most of my projects so needless to say my attention wasnt very attuned to the markets and how they were trending. Little has changed in regards to certain species popularity, what I have noticed is that there are ALOT more people involved in the hobby (at least making themselves obvious online), whether as a casual keeper or more commonly trying to make enough money to at least cover their expenses, if not a little extra. The truly ambitious give it their all, going into huge amounts of debt trying to turn Herpetoculture enterprises into a living.

Since leaving the hobby I have had 2 children, been to college for Business Management and now work for one of the larger banks working as a Business banker. In my off time I do some free lance business consultation and Market Analysis for small businesses in the area. Like many my ideal situation would be to give up my job(s) and work in the reptile industry full time.

I began browsing online reptile communities and classifieds again about a year and a half ago, poring over conversations between hobbyists and watching the markets.

What Ive seen has disturbed me, the reptile market is sick, and the poor economy is only one of the pathogens infecting this patient. Unfortunately it seems as though some sort of myopia has afflicted Herpetoculturists along with some sort of mania. This is not a condemnation, but an observation that in most cases our absolute passion for these animals coupled with the dream of becoming self employed doing what we adore for a living has made us in many cases shortsighted and the animals and our pocket books suffer greatly.


First off, let me address the affection for genetic abberations...is there anything wrong with this? Not at all, however it has become such a driving factor in what makes an animal "desirable" the prices for anything new and strange skyrocket, making the pricetags for the next great thing exponentially higher than its "normal" wildcaught counterpart. People climb over each other to get them and breed them (oftentimes indiscriminately), touting it as an investment,when in fact by the time these morphs are made public the breeder who developed it, if he/she is smart, is several seasons ahead already and have the "next next big thing" coming down the pipe already. Prices drop to more reasonable or even bottom of the barrel levels in a heartbeat and in turn, make garnering that investment back a shaky proposition. This sets up a very few lucky individuals with a hefty cash flow to begin with as driving forces in the market.

The second issue is indiscriminate breeding. In my last year on Kingsnake and faunaclassifieds, I have seen a glut of certain species, Ill adress those closest to my heart that Ive paid the most attention to. Crested Geckos and Leopard geckos should be a dime a dozen in a literal sense for the numbers present on the market. I see the same ads for the same animals posted over and over again, prices dropping sometimes daily. At a certain point some enterprising individual snags them up and one of two things happen..theyre wholesaled off to a larger retailer, they are socked away until the market improves (which in turn will hurt any recovery in price when yet another giant gob of that species hits the classifieds), or they are taken and bred again by someone who sees the low price as an indicator that they can easily recoup the investment and turn a profit. The snake eating its own tail as it were in many of these instances.

In the case they end up in a petstore, many of these animals languish and are maimed due to incorrect care, incidents in shipping and unfortunately often die in droves far before their time .

The issue, as I see it, is that the average consumer who purchases reptiles for whatever reason doesn't realize that they are for their small part, in complete control of the market. This infection of Myopia concerning Crested Geckos, Leopard geckos, and to a lesser extent Fat Tailed Geckos is hurting the gecko market as a whole. I love them too, so please don't take anything I say as a condemnation, my reasons for writing this are varied, and will be outlined in my final paragraph.

The simple fact of the matter is that in the Gecko market, 3 species garner 90% of the attention..and lets face it, the reason for this is the artificial desirability of genetic aberrations(morphs) and that they are more marketable than other species. They draw a larger crowd due to temperment, size, and appearance in general. They also draw the crowd looking to launch into a business with the fictional appearance of easy profit often being the draw. The picture the market presents is and always will be one that is very much an illusion. However, these crowds that are drawn in by them, will in many cases be drawn to other species of reptile and amphibian as well if presented in the proper way.

I could continue the rant, but Ill get to the point of all this. First off, the Gecko market, and the Herp market in general is sick, and its not something an upturn in the economy will cure, that will simply make the symptoms less pronounced, but the illness will still be present. The issues are a myopic focus on a very small number of species, and a general apathy in regards to the status quo. What is desirable and worthwhile is dictated by a very small number of people with the resources and interest, who have invested in a small pool of species. Secondly indiscriminate breeding is a huge factor, if something isnt selling well basic business sense is to cut down on the supply. You do not continue flooding a saturated market, the detrimental affects of this can only be made exponentially worse when the economy as a whole is under duress.

The simple fact of the matter is that every last one of us controls this market, and some wise decisions and changes in attitude will be needed to ensure a healthy playing field for everyone. I desire to see herpetoculture as something that just about anyone can get into, whether its with 1.1 Leopard Geckos or eleventy billion different species and at least be able to break even on electricity, water, feed and time spent. How do we do this you may ask? Greater diversity.

With greater diversity in species, people can breed more selectively as markets dictate. Sure, at this point there is an issue that most of the 1200 species of gecko are seen as "trash" from a money making standpoint. Thats just geckos so says Google, across the spectrum of Reptile and Amphibian there are so many cool animals its a shame our attentions have been artificially drawn to a small few whose virtues have been touted as somehow greater than the others for whatever reason. Most imports are so dirt cheap no self respecting breeder trying to make a living would waste their time..right? Look at it this way, if we as gecko keepers as a whole begin to make the effort to diversify collections, expound upon the virtues of new species to those unfamiliar, and offer captive bred animals, the market will work against the importers bringing in animals dirt cheap. It could create a new paradigm within the market, taking stress off of wild populations, forcing more diversity to be brought in by importers rather than the same species over and over again to languish in pet stores. At this point its a rinse and repeat cycle that simply makes all of these other animals, and the ecosystems they originate from suffer, and paints a very irresponsible picture of herpetoculturists as a whole. What I propose offers the market new vistas, offers the braver individuals the opportunity to be a trailblazer in the hobby, just think of the first person to breed this or that animal to F4 generation, the first person to produce an albino or piebald morph of a species with which thats never been done before. It will also save the lives of the thousands of CB Cresteds, Leopards, Fat Tails and countless other Herps that end up poorly cared for and were truly better off not being hatched out in the first place.

Im a bright eyed optimist, so I see a shift to a more "European" attitude something attainable with time, its all in the hands of the average herpin Joes and Janes, whether you run a business or not. A more European attitude towards Herps would present many more business opportunities, and when coupled with good old American capitalistic ideals could create a far richer experience for all involved, from the small child getting his or her first animal, to the top of the tier business person. I think these ideas would level the playing field for everyone in the hobby, give Herpetoculturists a more ethical place to stand in regards to current legislative efforts against us, provide a more diverse group of CB animals to work with, and make the Market easier to break into for those people who desire to break even or better.

If you made it to the end of this essay, thanks for taking the time. Any and all feedback or discussion, or pointing out of glaring errors in my logic is appreciated...sorry for the typos.

 

[acpart]

THis is a very interesting post about a subject dear to our hearts. Here is my main concern about diversity, though: I am finding it surprisingly difficult for many people to keep even a leopard gecko appropriately. Even with a 10 page caresheet that I provide, people have a hard time. And when there's no caresheet it's even more disasterous. I worry about some of the other species that would be featured in a more diverse approach because their caging and maintenance needs seem to be beyond the average person. For example, even though I own cresties and 2 species of day geckos, I wouldn't breed them because I don't feel that people would make the effort to obtain a vertically oriented enclosure (even though there are many Exo-terra and Zoo-med tanks out there, not to mention hex tanks), much less to mist the geckos 1 or 2 times a day. The only way I'd consider it would be if I were to sell set-ups along with the geckos, as I offer when I sell leopard geckos. So, I worry that while we'd be saving the lives of a lot of leos, fat tails, etc, we'd be making life miserable for new species of gecko. Just look at all the sick and miserable looking bearded dragons showing up on craigslist.

Aliza

 

[M_surinamensis]

If you made it to the end of this essay, thanks for taking the time. Any and all feedback or discussion, or pointing out of glaring errors in my logic is appreciated...sorry for the typos.

A couple points then, since you're inviting them.

First up! Looking at your listed age and some of your fairly generalized statements about when things happened and what things were like, your timelines are a bit off. Most of your points are still views I happen to espouse myself (in substance anyway), but if you want to gather genuinely in-depth information on the reptile market, you should probably go back to about 1980, as a minimum. Longer if you're inclined, but 1980 would allow you to analyze a number of surges in popularity, several advances in approaches to captive care, periods of intense diversity and the development of morph driven markets across several species. As I said, much of what you have to say is substantially in agreement with my own positions on the subject but some of your history is a bit off.

I'll be clipping a few lines to respond to, the short sections chosen are mostly being used to avoid re-pasting paragraphs that can be read in their full context two posts up.

there are so many cool animals its a shame our attentions have been artificially drawn to a small few whose virtues have been touted as somehow greater than the others for whatever reason.

Suitability as a pet for the general public is the reason. Hardiness, docility, ease of supplying the proper environment and diet.

Personally my tastes run in slightly different directions but some species are better suited for more people than others. I have snakes and lizards that I can guarantee will try to bite someone every time they are handled. I have some animals that have required countless hours of careful manipulation of feeding triggers to keep them alive because their instincts directed them to eat a specific species of pacific island frog. I have a pair of salamanders that I have tried to breed every year since the late nineties and only had anything that would qualify as success once during that time.

Aliza said it plainly, but I'm reiterating it because she's right; out of the thousands of species of reptile and amphibian, many of them are unsuitable for the majority of consumers. There's a learning curve involved in being able to maintain many of those species in captivity and some of them are unsuitable (not necessarily impossible, but distinctly unsuitable) for even the most experienced and knowledgeable individuals.

Most imports are so dirt cheap no self respecting breeder trying to make a living would waste their time..right? Look at it this way, if we as gecko keepers as a whole begin to make the effort to diversify collections, expound upon the virtues of new species to those unfamiliar, and offer captive bred animals, the market will work against the importers bringing in animals dirt cheap.

Not really, unfortunately. Even if you fold in the idea of educating the public on the benefits of captive bred animals, the overhead involved in breeding some species would drastically increase the price for captive bred animals over wild caught. A little higher, that seems justified to a consumer. A two thousand percent price increase is a rough sale to make. Those who don't know any better won't understand the reason for it. Those who do understand the reason are also capable of better handling the concerns that are associated with imported animals without undue difficulty.

It could create a new paradigm within the market, taking stress off of wild populations, forcing more diversity to be brought in by importers rather than the same species over and over again to languish in pet stores.

You should definitely look into the history of the market prior to your own involvement. Diversity in imported species was the name of the game for a little while, the move to a morph dominated market happened alongside some of it, but as recently as the late nineties many pet stores were seeing a great deal of diversity in the stock available to them. Some specialty stores still do of course, but a decade ago you could walk into a big box chain store and see twenty or thirty different species. As much as I am also a proponent of the pet industry and believe that pet store bashing has become a fad that frequently has little basis... All too often it was twenty or thirty different species in eight fish tanks all half dead.

I value species diversity a great deal. It fits well with why I keep reptiles and what I want out of them. It needs to be handled carefully though if it is to be successful, a rapid influx of species that most pet stores have never seen before just results in a larger number of species condemned to "languish in pet stores."

At this point its a rinse and repeat cycle that simply makes all of these other animals, and the ecosystems they originate from suffer, and paints a very irresponsible picture of herpetoculturists as a whole.

The tone of that line implies a few things that aren't supported by fact. The impact of collection for the pet trade on ecosystems is minimal, it is managed and monitored and it is not- no matter what you may have read on some sketchy AR website- a big pile of irresponsibility and suffering.

Most of the opinions you have espoused in your post are shared by me. I think you should look into a time period before your own involvement for a slightly clearer picture but the concepts line up with things I agree with and have said myself. In this case though, you're objectively wrong and are showing a bit of naivety about how the import business functions. There are a lot of excellent reasons to promote responsible captive breeding efforts for a lot of species which are currently overlooked but the environmental impact of wild collection isn't really one of them.

What I propose offers the market new vistas, offers the braver individuals the opportunity to be a trailblazer in the hobby

You're actually offering old vistas. Proposing to turn around and go back in a direction we've already been. Or somewhere adjacent to it. It's not really trailblazing when you're walking backwards and stepping in someone else's footprints.

 

[Tony C]

The tone of that line implies a few things that aren't supported by fact. The impact of collection for the pet trade on ecosystems is minimal, it is managed and monitored and it is not- no matter what you may have read on some sketchy AR website- a big pile of irresponsibility and suffering.

There are cases where collection for the pet trade has done severe damage. Dart frogs provide several examples, declines in populations of Ranitomeya lamasi and Oophaga lehmanni have been attributed to illegal collection and smuggling, and a few of the smaller Oophaga pumilio populations in Panama have also suffered from over collection. On the gecko side of things I remember reading concerns that collection of Lygodactylus williamsi is likely outpacing their ability to repopulate.

 

[M_surinamensis]

attributed to illegal collection and smuggling

I'll acknowledge the points, but would also contend that illegal collection and smuggling is a bit outside the scope of a discussion about promoting CB alternatives and species diversity within the legal pet trade. Individuals who are willing to break the law* are going to do so regardless of the number of other, legal, alternatives existing in the pet trade.

There are some concerns about the sometimes reactionary nature of collection limits, but CITES biologists do an exemplary job of population analysis and prediction and the current public trend of environmental awareness creates a scenario where errors will mostly be made on the side of caution. The real issues I see are nations which refuse to comply with the information gathering process or findings and a couple nations which are notorious for laundering smuggled animals.**

*this kind of law anyway, I don't think Martin Luther King's ethos applies to wildlife smuggling.

**Germany is a problem with their slap on the wrist fine, go ahead and keep it policies. There are some problems with South and Central American animals being moved from a nation where export is not legal to a bordering nation where it is prior to being mislabeled and sold.

Edit: I may not have been clear about it in my responses but I think the original post and the follow ups made by others are all excellent. My picky, argumentative nature shouldn't be viewed as something that detracts from the value of what everyone else has written. That's just me, I argue just as much when I am thrilled to read something as I do when I am disappointed.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

This is a very stimulating and cerebral thread! The points made are all valid, and I'm glad to see posts that go beyond the basic questions that seem to get posted again and again, apparently from lack of effort to utilize the 'search' function of this forum for answers.

Fixing the reptile market (geckos specifically) is a complex issue. First let me say that I thinks is a good thing that there are more people interested in keeping reptiles. But with a saturated market, breeders selling geckos at wholesale prices to the public, prices going down as the supply goes up, anyone with visions of making any money at breeding are naive at best. In the nearly 16 years I have been a breeder, Golden Gate Geckos took a loss for the second consecutive year... meaning I made less money than it cost more to manage my small business. Much of this was due to taking a huge hit on the rising shipping costs, and selling nearly half of my 2010 stock in 2011.

What I have to ask, even myself, is WHY everyone seems to feel the need to breed geckos? We keep dogs, cats, birds, fish, and other animals and don't necessarily feel the need to breed them. We balk at the indiscriminate breeding and perpetuating the masses of unwanted dogs and cats, and then balk at the mass euthanasia of these animals in over crowded shelters. We want our rights as reptile keepers, but continue breeding them with a 'disposable pet' mentality. Why can't we adopt the mindset of responsible pet owners with our reptiles, too?

I don't know what it will take to "fix" the reptile market, but I can only assume responsibility for how I am contributing to it. I have decreased my breeding collection by two-thirds over the past 3 years, and will only be producing a limited number of leopard geckos this season. I am a small fish in a huge pond, but I just can't sit and complain about the glut market without actively trying to do my part to remedy it.

 

[T-ReXx]

Very interesting topic. One point I'd like to throw in is that herpetoculture in the overall form is a hobby. The vast majority of people who keep reptiles are doing so not to pay their bills but to do something they enjoy doing and maybe make a little money to help defray husbandry costs. I think a better solution than outright telling people to stop breeding the common species is to encourage more controlled and selective breeding. The main problem with market saturation is an excess of mediocre animals that are sold to inexperienced beginners who want to breed their animals but don't understand why many of them shouldn't be bred. Unfortunately this sort of thing is pretty much a self-restraint issue; breeders cannot control what happens with their stock after sale. However, selling only higher quality animals in smaller quantities is not only a way for the individual to achieve the higher prices they want but also to ensure only quality animals make it into an already flooded population.

I have to agree that diversifying into other species is not the way to go for most hobbyists. Maintaining a varied collection is not easy by any means, and many
enthusiasts are not experienced enough and/or have the time and resources to do so. There are many species that are simply beyond the capabilities of most reptile keepers, and pushing them to embrace these animals over more commonly available hardier species is not going to end well in most cases.

I personally don't think the reptile market needs to be "fixed." What needs to happen is simply better and more limited production by dedicated breeders. Most of the "newbie" breeders never make it past their first season, although there are a lot of subpar animals released into the market by those individuals the long term affects of such events are minor as long as those individuals who acquire those animals don't continue to utilize them to produce more of the same.

 

[Tony C]

There are some concerns about the sometimes reactionary nature of collection limits, but CITES biologists do an exemplary job of population analysis and prediction and the current public trend of environmental awareness creates a scenario where errors will mostly be made on the side of caution. The real issues I see are nations which refuse to comply with the information gathering process or findings and a couple nations which are notorious for laundering smuggled animals.**

For the most part species-level management works well, and I would certainly be a hypocrite if I stood in opposition to the wild caught pet trade. I just brought up dart frogs because they are one of my primary interests and provide a great example of when species-level management is insufficient. Most dart frog species are divided into a number of reproductively and phenotypically distinct populations, and some of those have been harmed or nearly wiped out by collection for the trade both legal and not. Unfortunately little or no action has been taken because from the species point of view they are doing just fine. I'm not really sure where to go with that thought, but it seemed interesting and relevant enough to bring up.

As for geckosI have chosen not to breed leopards anymore, like Marcia I am doing my small part to reduce market saturation and focusing my efforts elsewhere.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I think a better solution than outright telling people to stop breeding the common species is to encourage more controlled and selective breeding.

Everyone stopped breeding the classic morphs, ie: patternless and blizzards. With all the 'morph-making' going on, there are very few breeders who work with the pure morphs. I sell out of them very fast! At shows, I get more requests for normal leopard geckos than I do anything else. So what I'm saying is, that people started doing exactly what you suggest and now those morphs are in high demand. Which goes along with my principle:

Economics 101 - "When the market is saturated and the demand is low, instead of producing more and selling cheaper, make less and keep the prices level".

 

[M_surinamensis]

I just brought up dart frogs because they are one of my primary interests and provide a great example of when species-level management is insufficient. Most dart frog species are divided into a number of reproductively and phenotypically distinct populations, and some of those have been harmed or nearly wiped out by collection for the trade both legal and not. Unfortunately little or no action has been taken because from the species point of view they are doing just fine. I'm not really sure where to go with that thought, but it seemed interesting and relevant enough to bring up.

Push for recognized subspecific designations or recognition by the CITES treaty countries for acknowledgement of an isolated population status. It's worked for a few island populations of reptile and quite a lot of fish. I'll stand behind you and help by shouting "YEAH!" to punctuate your statements.

Don't get me wrong though, I am not saying that the system is necessarily perfect, merely that it's pretty good and has enough adaptability built in to work towards perfection. Public awareness and support of environmental management has grown pretty steadily in the last ten-fifteen years with all the attention issues have gotten and that has translated into more forward-looking policy decisions where the legalities are concerned. The reactionary nature of international trade in animals* is transitioning into an anticipatory analysis** That is to say, responsible and intelligent wild collection on an upswing and constantly getting better at it.

*Take all you want! Aaaaaaall you waaaaa- CRAP! They're looking pretty endangered. Stop taking them!

**Species is found over X square kilometers in the wild at a density of Y per km² the average reproductive ration is 1:Z and they are currently threatened by (circle all that apply) habitat loss/invasive species/habitat contamination/noise pollution/Ozone Depletion destroying eggs/changes to the population dynamics of their predators and prey. ______ can be collected safely for the next three years while maintaining a stable population, at which time another study will be conducted.

 

[Baoh]

The market is not broken and, therefore, requires no fix or solution. It is simply responsive to the various forces involved. Business Management school ought to have taught this lesson well. Making a market is not a fix, but more of an imposition of a force to draw out a different market response.

It is up to the individual to decide to breed or not and it seems a bit hypocritical or otherwise out of place for one breeder not to understand another breeder's desires or motivations. As for the argument that it may lead to more poorly kept animals, which may be true, the breeders which make this argument are also potentially contributing to the same pool of neglected offspring. After the sale, we relinquish control and everything that occurs after that is no longer dictated by best intentions and rose-colored well wishes.

I appreciate the more recent gluts if only because so many who used to claim they bred "for the love of it" (and some genuinely do, so I hold no ill will) are also among the so many who decry the resulting loss of pricing ranges that previously helped them toward profitability. If it's truly about the former as a claimed purist belief, then what we see now should elicit no complaint.

As for me, even as a hobbyist breeder working on a bit of this and a tad of that, my small leopard gecko operation has more than paid for itself and these are pretty much just pets. Still, I'm phasing stuff out over time until I'm down to maybe 1-2 breeding projects (Giant/Super Giant RAPTORglows and maybe Super Giant Super Snows) which interest me and increasing my tortoise, Neocardinia shrimp, and rabbit snail work again (because I like and have a knack for them - they also give me positive ROI).

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

It is up to the individual to decide to breed or not and it seems a bit hypocritical or otherwise out of place for one breeder not to understand another breeder's desires or motivations.

It may seem a bit hypocritical, but I specifically asked "why" we (including myself) feel the need to breed. For me, 16 years ago there were very little internet resources and people who kept reptiles were considered a little strange. I wanted to breed my geckos to promote my love and satisfaction from keeping them with others, and dispel many of the myths about reptiles as mainstream pets. If I didn't love what I do, I doubt I would still be around with my reputation intact after all these years. However, breeding our animals simply because we love them may actually be indiscriminate breeding.

So, I will ask the question again with a post script: "WHY" do we feel the need to breed our geckos with so many available on the market, and then complain about how their prices have dropped?

I appreciate the more recent gluts if only because so many who used to claim they bred "for the love of it" (and some genuinely do, so I hold no ill will) are also among the so many who decry the resulting loss of pricing ranges that previously helped them toward profitability. If it's truly about the former as a claimed purist belief, then what we see now should elicit no complaint.

There is truth in this statement. Again, I can only speak for myself and a few others who's motives and values are aligned with mine. By making the choice to cut back my leopard gecko breeding by more than 60%, I can forecast a better profit, or at least pay for itself. By not having a huge number of geckos to feed, heat, clean, etc., I am saving on feeder costs, utilities, supplies, and the number of hours spent performing the 'busy-work' involved in caring for them. More me, this translates into better profitability and helps the glut regardless of how small a contribution to the market as a whole.

 

[Baoh]

I can certainly appreciate the directions you have taken and the refocusing of efforts to tailor your breeding efforts to such ends.

 

[Northstar Herp]

I too, agree that this is a wonderful discussion, and would like to throw my two cents in. It's more of a question than it is an answer...

I understand the validity of what's already been said, but on top of that I wonder how much the internet/forums/online classifieds and social networking via internet have affected the herp industry. I feel that the state we're in has been hastened and enhanced by the growth of the internet, some good and bad I guess. I'm thinking primarily of-

-morph hype to a greater and more contagious degree due to pics and threads about them
-connections that never would have been made otherwise
-free classifieds across the country and even to other countries
-most of all, when it's free to do so, any ole' idiot can come on a forum and share bad husbandry tips. They can seem valid simply because they're in print, though they don't have to go through the filters of publishing.

I hope I'm making sense here, and would love to hear your thoughts.

 

[Baoh]

Myth correction is also faster, potentially, as well as countermeasures to hype. It is nice to be able to see things like the Galaxy, Abyssinian, Pin Stripe, Lucifer, and more for what they really are (willful perpetuation of falsified information under the guise of "marketing") and also to be able to spot breeders who do not understand the genetics of their animals while using terminology they have no working knowledge of (I will be kind and call this ignorance due to lack of exposure or outright cognitive inability rather than consider it intentional).

To me, it is typically not worth arguing with a tide of misinformed individuals that have very strong emotional investments, but the potential for rapid correction exists, so I appreciate this latter aspect.

 

[Northstar Herp]

I agree with you on the upside as well. It just seems that there is a lot more of the downside sometimes.

I can't gripe about it too much, since I wouldn't be nearly as advanced as a keeper if it weren't for this internet thing.