Here's what i don't get... Some thoughts, please.

[StatikStepz]

...So i was just curious... Earlier this evening i was just looking through my "The Herpetoculture of Leopard Geckos" book (for those that don't know Ron Tremper's book), glancing through it and something caught my eye that i don't think i have noticed before...

In this book, Ron Tremper states, on page 11, under the "Growth" section, that you can get all females from TWO different temp ranges during the 1st 3 weeks of egg incubation. Now, i have always known to not go over 90 degrees when incubating, but how come in his book, it says you can go all the way up to 93 (and with a completely different outcome)?

This is what he says you will get, in his book, for the following temps:

79 degrees - yields only females
86 degrees - produces a female-biased sex ratio (75% female, and 25% male)
90.5 degrees - produces a male-biased sex ratio (75% male, and 25% female)
93 degrees - yields all females

Howcome he has numbers different than what we all know... And how can you get females from both 79 degrees AND 93 degrees???

Does this make sense to anyone...??? I have never heard of the scale starting with all females being produced, and ending with all females produced, with only a few males thrown in the middle of the mix.... :main_huh:

 

[MiamiLeos]

many of those are known as "hot" females and are usually sterile or unable to produce good eggs. the temperature war started when the first chocolate albinos were produced. they kept jacking up the temp to get nicer looking geckos except the majority of the hot females were unable to produce good offspring. i had such a female once, she produced eggs, mated, but all the eggs were infertile. you can also get something called a cold male, but they are much much less common.

 

[JordanAng420]

You want to know what I honestly think? And I might be WAAAAY off about this...

I think a lot of what is printed in those books are based on what genetics SHOULD yield. I think that we all know from personal experience what works for our own animals, as far as incubation temperatures and what we've personally produced. Ron Tremper obviously knows what he's doing to be able to produce all those beautiful morphs he's created, but I don't think there's a book in the world that will reveal all of his (or anyone else's) secrets...

What I mean is, i'm sure there's stuff he does that isn't in that book. I'm not saying the information isn't accurate, but I AM saying that I think there's more to it than meets the eye, ya know what I mean? Business is business...A magician won't ever tell you the secret behind his main event.

Just my opinion, and again I might be WAY off...but I always read between the lines, it's a habit of mine.

 

[robin]

many of those are known as "hot" females and are usually sterile or unable to produce good eggs. the temperature war started when the first chocolate albinos were produced. they kept jacking up the temp to get nicer looking geckos except the majority of the hot females were unable to produce good offspring. i had such a female once, she produced eggs, mated, but all the eggs were infertile. you can also get something called a cold male, but they are much much less common.

what we call "chocolate albinos" are what the original trempers albinos looked like. between messing with the temps and selective breeding trempers have become what they are now. they do not even resemble what they originally looked like.

 

[MiamiLeos]

what we call "chocolate albinos" are what the original trempers albinos looked like. between messing with the temps and selective breeding trempers have become what they are now. they do not even resemble what they originally looked like.

agreed.

 

[robin]

I think a lot of what is printed in those books are based on what genetics SHOULD yield. I think that we all know from personal experience what works for our own animals, as far as incubation temperatures and what we've personally produced. Ron Tremper obviously knows what he's doing to be able to produce all those beautiful morphs he's created, but I don't think there's a book in the world that will reveal all of his (or anyone else's) secrets...

What I mean is, i'm sure there's stuff he does that isn't in that book. I'm not saying the information isn't accurate, but I AM saying that I think there's more to it than meets the eye, ya know what I mean? Business is business...A magician won't ever tell you the secret behind his main event.

Just my opinion, and again I might be WAY off...but I always read between the lines, it's a habit of mine.

back in the day he had not told anyone about the "tremper incubation method". his animals were turning out nice and white and bright but when the average person bred them or they were exposed to slightly cooler temps they darkened. a while later he revealed his incubation method.

 

[KelliH]

You want to know what I honestly think? And I might be WAAAAY off about this...

I think a lot of what is printed in those books are based on what genetics SHOULD yield. I think that we all know from personal experience what works for our own animals, as far as incubation temperatures and what we've personally produced. Ron Tremper obviously knows what he's doing to be able to produce all those beautiful morphs he's created, but I don't think there's a book in the world that will reveal all of his (or anyone else's) secrets...

What I mean is, i'm sure there's stuff he does that isn't in that book. I'm not saying the information isn't accurate, but I AM saying that I think there's more to it than meets the eye, ya know what I mean? Business is business...A magician won't ever tell you the secret behind his main event.

Just my opinion, and again I might be WAY off...but I always read between the lines, it's a habit of mine.

Bingo.

 

[StatikStepz]

...So then those "incubation findings" might be incorrect?

And of course, I agree, RT is a business man... why would a business man give away all their secrets...?!?! The secrets that make them their money...?!?! lol.

 

[gitrdone0420]

You want to know what I honestly think? And I might be WAAAAY off about this...

I think a lot of what is printed in those books are based on what genetics SHOULD yield. I think that we all know from personal experience what works for our own animals, as far as incubation temperatures and what we've personally produced. Ron Tremper obviously knows what he's doing to be able to produce all those beautiful morphs he's created, but I don't think there's a book in the world that will reveal all of his (or anyone else's) secrets...

What I mean is, i'm sure there's stuff he does that isn't in that book. I'm not saying the information isn't accurate, but I AM saying that I think there's more to it than meets the eye, ya know what I mean? Business is business...A magician won't ever tell you the secret behind his main event.

Just my opinion, and again I might be WAY off...but I always read between the lines, it's a habit of mine.

Never thought about it that way...

 

[JordanAng420]

...So then those "incubation findings" might be incorrect?

And of course, I agree, RT is a business man... why would a business man give away all their secrets...?!?! The secrets that make them their money...?!?! lol.

I don't think they're incorrect, per se.
I just think that there's much more too it than he explains.
He WOULDN'T give away all his secrets, that's what I was trying to say.

 

[robin]

I don't think they're incorrect, per se.
I just think that there's much more too it than he explains.
He WOULDN'T give away all his secrets, that's what I was trying to say.

it's not that they are incorrect but rather incomplete

 

[JordanAng420]

Yes exactly. Thank you.

 

[ElapidSVT]

http://resources.metapress.com/pdf-preview.axd?code=60u364x755446748&size=largest

 

[Taquiq]

I don't think they're incorrect, per se.
I just think that there's much more too it than he explains.
He WOULDN'T give away all his secrets, that's what I was trying to say.

I agree. Nice statement.