I'm not sure where to put this.

[nidastothehades]

I've been musing around for a cornsnake here and there, checking our breeders online as well at local reptiles places in my area.

I found a local place yesterday and thought it was too good to be true to found the morph I wanted for $40.

Guys I don't know what to do about this. I refuse to name names at this point, but something needs to be done, and I wish I could help more. But this is why I'm turning to you guys. This specific place has two - three cornsnakes LIVING in delicups. Not there for transport. He specifically told me they were re-packaged (two nights ago from this post's date) into those as he was explaining how docile they were.

One of them was dead when I went to look at the snakes and handle them personally.

One of the 15 or 20 that were packaged.

Something has to be done, and right now I can't take them in. Any of them. I mean, I MIGHT be able to house them for a short amount of time, but I don't have the space or the compliant mother to do it with.

What should I do? Would anyone around here be willing to pick one of these fellas up or reimburse me for price/ shipping so they can get out of there? (Inevitably, I'd pick them up and send them to you.) I know they won't all get saved but ... it broke my heart and I can't sit here and do nothing.

Now correct me if I'm wrong. It's not right! They need space ... right? This is ... I don't even understand ...

 

[lillith]

Oh dear.
That is actually something you will likely have to name names on, if not to us here to the forums, at least to the local county animal control. I would also encourage a BOI thread, if you can find the strength.

It's one thing to make do with extra sterilites and heat mats until you can get a new rack built, but it's QUITE another to house animals in shipping containers. I would think that the long term effect on the animal, its organs, its bones, its respiration...would all add up to being adverse after enough time.

This is a form of animal cruelty, IMO. You need to tell someone.

 

[M_surinamensis]

Hrm... the housing thing really depends on a few factors. How wide were the deli cups, did they have access to water and how big were the corn snakes?

By itself, with no other details, the housing thing may not be that negative. A lot of colubrid breeders will use deli cups to separate and individually house neonate animals for a period of time. More acceptable for some species than others, and there's a definite limit to how long it can be done based on the size of the snake... but a four inch deli cup is not an unusual home for a corn snake for the first six to ten weeks (give or take) after it hatches. It's not the only method, many others use neonate racks or small tubs, but by itself, using delis may not be an act of neglect.

Now... if they have no water, if the temperature isn't being carefully monitored (no thermal gradient means more precision is necessary), if they are past a certain size, if the cups aren't being cleaned on a regular basis; those are problems. Unfortunately without seeing it directly nobody can really help judge the acceptability of the setup. The dead snake isn't a real promising indicator, but failure to thrive animals are something that crops up and one dead snake out of a number may or may not mean anything significant.

Setting that aside for the moment, and bearing in mind that I am not saying there is anything wrong with delis as temporary housing for some snakes...

If there really is a problem with the way these animals are being treated, buying them is counterproductive, because it just encourages the person who is neglecting them to obtain more and keep them in the same conditions. As a generalization, money should not be spent to obtain sick, injured, abused or deformed animals. Specific scenarios may defy that rule of thumb, but they are exceptions to what's normal.

If the current owner refuses to acknowledge the problem (provided there really is one) after they are approached with information that should lead them to fix it, the next step is to contact the local animal control (or analogous law enforcement agency) and file a report.

 

[lillith]

After giving this some more thought, it's not likely that they are docile, it's likely that they are very stressed and not well. I don't keep snakes or know as much about them...but I know that a fiesty snake is usually a healthy snake, and a docile one...may not be.

Sorry, I typed that the same time as the other response...

 

[fl_orchidslave]

I agree with Seamus, in that many factors could be involved here. We would need more details in order to have an opinion based on facts as to whether these snakes are in a bad situation or not. We breed and sometimes purchase wholesale groups of colubrids. If they're very small, they do well in a 4" deli cup with a little sauce cup glued to a penny attached to the bottom for water. When they're big enough for a 6qt, they're moved to the rack. Occasionally one will die because it just won't feed on it's own and assist feedings only go so far.....

Be very careful in considering taking action to report someone for animal neglect. The reptile hobby takes a beating every time the press gets wind of any situation they can sensationalize. There are groups that have a lot of $$$ trying to get claws into our elected officials to pass laws to limit and eliminate our ability to keep reptiles both as pets and maintain businesses.

 

[lillith]

I'm feeling guilty for speaking too soon. Listen to them.

 

[nidastothehades]

There is no external heat source, no access to water, and very small breather holes. The deli cups were about four inches tall and perhaps four inches in diameter.

I went to my local SPCA and they referred me to the SPCA where the store in question was in their jurisdiction. I reported it this afternoon. This is apparently NOT the first complaint about this place. They're going to do more frequent checks I guess, since this guy has a habit of hiding his mishaps well.

I went back today as well, after I had called, and the snakes were no where to be found. They had been moved into an Employee only room, but I still saw deli-cups that had snakes in them, but I saw them near racks. Hopefully, they will be transferred. They had been in the deli cups without heating or water for over 48 hours, to my knowledge; the store owner mentioned it to me.

 

[M_surinamensis]

The ambient heat in a pet shop may or may not be adequate without supplementation.

The lack of water, if accurate, for that duration, is bordering on neglectful.