Should geckos with deformities be culled?

Should deformed geckos be culled?

  • No. Under no circumstances should a living creature be killed.

    Votes: 24 8.7%
  • Yes, but only if they cannot survive on their own.

    Votes: 208 75.6%
  • Yes, but only if it is a known genetic defect.

    Votes: 21 7.6%
  • Yes. Any defective or deformed gecko should be put down immediately after birth.

    Votes: 29 10.5%
  • I'm undecided. (list reasons below)

    Votes: 18 6.5%

  • Total voters
    275

LeapinLizards

It's a BEAUT Clark!
Messages
2,305
Location
Oregon
Oh, he sold! Someone got lucky.
Yes, that INCREDIBLY lucky person is me :) (Marcia...I can never thank you enough).

I've never had a gecko with any sort of deformity (unless you call being a general BUTTHEAD a deformity :main_rolleyes:) until "Piglet" graced me with his presence a couple days ago. This gecko has a heart of gold, and is the most gentle little guy I've ever seen. He just wants love, I know that sounds so silly, but it would only take you holding him for 30 seconds and you would agree with me. He really is more like a little puppy dog than a gecko! There is NOTHING better than walking in the room, opening his tub, and seeing his adorable little face peeking right up at me, nostril deformities and all.

I cannot imagine culling him due to him having nostril deformities. I am a firm believer in nature running it's course. Survival of the fittest if you will.

However, if there is no shadow of a doubt in your mind that a gecko you just brought into this world (due to the choice you made to put it's parents together) is going to suffer, not thrive, or be in pain...then by all means I agree with HUMANELY ending it.

The hard part is drawing that line...a line that can be very blurry at times, when shrouded by the love we feel for these animals. One of the hardest things in the world is making that unselfish decision.
 

thestack510

Rest In Peace jmlslayer
Messages
3,177
Location
The S.F. Bay Area, California, U.S.A.
Piglet is such a cool gecko. His deformities aren't life altering. He does fine, I'm sure. I have seen pics where over anxious rookie breeders cut the egg and don't give the little one time to fully develop. Gross! I know I'm drifting off topic, but the end result is the same, death. I hate seeing those pics. In most cases it's obvious which ones can pull through and survive.
 

Gregg M

Registered Member
Messages
3,055
Location
The Rotten Apple NYC
An old topic but still a good one and important at that...

Personally, I do not allow weak or bad genetics to thrive in my collection at all... Pretty much any deformed hatchling is instantly culled, minor or severe... I have plenty of Varanids that readily accept geckos as prey... To me that is the best way to cull deformed or weak hatchlings... If the animal must die, it might as well be put to use...

I do not believe in rasing animals that are physically or genetically weak... Those traits can easily be propagated into the population and make more weak animals... Survival of the fittest... If it is failing to thrive on its own, it should be culled... Although there is no natural selection in captive breeding, we as breeders should do as nature does when it comes to propagating fit animals...
Thats my opinion...:main_thumbsup:
 

Alusdra

New Member
Messages
475
Location
Washington, DC
Missed this before- but the cooling/freezing method is NOT recommended. It is now considered inhumane.

Cooling—It has been suggested that, when using physical methods of euthanasia in ectothermic species, cooling to 4 C will decrease metabolism and facilitate handling, but there is no evidence that whole body cooling reduces pain or is clinically efficacious. Local cooling in frogs does reduce nociception, and this may be partly opioid mediated. Immobilization of reptiles by cooling is considered inappropriate and inhumane even if combined with other physical or chemical methods of euthanasia. Snakes and turtles, immobilized by cooling, have been killed by subsequent freezing. This method is not recommended. Formation of ice crystals on the skin and in tissues of an animal may cause pain or distress. Quick freezing of deeply anesthetized animals is acceptable.
From AVMA Animal Welfare Site, Guidelines for Euthanasia

Link to the PDF.
 

leoman777

New Member
Messages
1,199
Location
mesa,az
Yes, but only if they cannot survive on their own. i posted that and what if it were not a breeder that owned a gecko with deformities or defects and it was just the average joe
 

ariana

New Member
Messages
1,516
Location
far side of sanity
i got 2 beautiful and sweet geckos with deformities from chris,
and they are actually sweeter and nicer than my 2 healthy ones.
geckos with deformities should not be put down,
think about it as kids,
if a child is born with a deformity,
should they kill the child?
NO.
and you shouldnt with geckos or any other animal.
 

goReptiles

New Member
Messages
2,639
Location
Georgia
I did not think that culling was necessarily euthanasia. I thought that culling was more or less, pulling the animal from the breeding pile, so to speak, making it a pet only animal.

In terms of euthanasia, then only if the animal will have a hard life. Otherwise, culling, meaning not to breed, if it has a disability that can potentially be inherited.
 

RampantReptiles

New Member
Messages
2,490
Location
Canandaigua, NY
I agree with everyone here, euthanize if its life debilitating.
The leopard gecko community is HUGE and so many people keep leos as pets and can take on a pet with a deformity and enjoy it for the rest of its like.(wow sorry for my writing its early in the morning)
We have to have faith in people that they will breed responsibly so to speak so if a gecko that existed that shouldnt be bred that hopefully it wont get bred.

When it comes to fish, I work in a pet store as some might know and I will go through the tanks and if I find a fish that is deformed I usually feed it to something else. Most of the time no one is going to buy it and if it is a livebearer, well those things breed whether you want them to or not most of the time. The general public most likely will not practice responsible breeding for reasons such as "I didnt have another tank to put him in..." So many fish are so deeply inbred that deformities are not uncommon, especially spinal ones.

I had a leopard gecko with balance problems that I tried to breed because I wasnt sure it was genetic. She was the sweetest gecko I have ever had, I loved her so much. She ended up getting egg bound and I had to euthanize her, I guess it wasnt meant to be. I kind of wish I hadnt bred her because she might still be with us today. I had my boyfriend try to feed her to one of his snakes (I couldnt bear doing it) and none of his snakes would eat her so we ended up freezing her.
I honestly think if you can feed it off to something that will make its death quick that its better than the freezer or CO2 method. Thats essential what would happen in the wild and the creature would have been put to good use so to speak(I know that sounds cruel but Im too tired to make it sound nicer).
 

Krow

Senior Member
Messages
918
Location
East Texas
JMO: If they cant or wont survive, then I would put them down, but if the deformity was something small or simple, then I would sell cheaply or give away to a willing friend, but only someone you trust so you know the gecko is in good care & will remain a pet only.
 

THE WHISPERER

New Member
Messages
2,093
Location
California
Just curious of how you went from this...

i got 2 beautiful and sweet geckos with deformities from chris,
and they are actually sweeter and nicer than my 2 healthy ones.
geckos with deformities should not be put down,
think about it as kids,
if a child is born with a deformity,
should they kill the child?
NO.
and you shouldnt with geckos or any other animal.
to this....

Yes. Any defective or deformed gecko should be put down immediately after birth.

i want to change my vote on the poll to this
 

ajveachster

New Member
Messages
1,185
Location
NE Ohio
We just had to deal with this. We had a baby born with a deformity. She never ate. I tried hand feeding. She would bite a meal worm, but never take it down. I had her on a liquid diet to try to keep her hydrated and give her some nutrients. She stopped even taking that. She became extremely emaciated, and her eyes started to sink in. We decided to cull her rather than letting her starve to death slowly. It wasn't an easy decision, but it happens. If she had been able to eat on her own it would have been a different story.
 

Golden Gate Geckos

Mean Old Gecko Lady
Messages
12,731
Location
SF Bay Area
It's always a hard thing to do, but if they can't thrive on their own it's the only 'quality of life' choice you can make. Logically, our brains tell us this... but our hearts don't always agree.
 

Gregg M

Registered Member
Messages
3,055
Location
The Rotten Apple NYC
I did not think that culling was necessarily euthanasia. I thought that culling was more or less, pulling the animal from the breeding pile, so to speak, making it a pet only animal.
No, culling is killing... If the animal is not killed it is not being culled... Deformed"pet only" geckos still have the ability to pass on their defective genetics... This is especially true if you are selling it to another party... There is no telling what someone may do with the animal once it is out of your hands...

The only way to be certain that defective genes are not going to make it into the captive bloodlines is to cull or kill the defective hatchlings...
 

GeckoTrouble

New Member
Messages
341
Location
Austin, TX
I think it depends on who the other party is.
There are folks like me who work in the rescue world, who would never consider breeding any animal in my care. A deformed gecko who was given to me (deformed geckos should not be sold IMHO) would get high quality vet care, a suitable set up and would never be bred. If I could no longer keep it, it would only go to someone who I know shares the same mentality on breeding rescue geckos.

So if the breeder wants to allow a deformed gecko to live, they better be prepared to keep it the rest of it's life, or give it to someone like me, who will provide veterinary care and never breed
 
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