spins and wobbles...

[jayson]

does anybody have info on why the enigma morph gets the spins/wobbles...and i was also wondering if the deformity works like the stargazer gene found in sunkissed cornsnakes.is it heritable?? can it be bred out? is there anybody working on this unfortunate deformity(test breeding) to see what happens? thanks in advance for any and all of your help.

jayson rafter

 

[Neo.Reptiliac]

As of right now not a lot is known about enigmas. Its fairly new and one of those things that just popped up unexpectedly. Its suggested to not breed 2 enigmas together cause some believe that it may cause more a risk to getting the defect associated with spinning and the other symptoms. But yes most breeders are working to not breed any enigma showing the signs of the issues associated with the morph. I for one have a good line of enigmas that which none have shown the tell tell signs yet but so do other breeders. I am sure that after a while we will have got that bred out of them.

 

[jayson]

poor little dudes & dudettes...

thanks for the quick reply. i think i may do a little experimenting seeing as they are very healthy...other than the spins. it might not be heritable, but it might mack it worse on the other hand.i don't really want to be the one doing this but i think this needs to be better understood.and if there is anybody out there studying this ....please let me know.we all need to try and fix this(if possible) or get rid of it all together.(not the whole enigma trait)

thank you
jayson rafter

 

[OneFootedAce]

Gregg has a theory he posted recently, I think this could very well be a cause of the 'enigma syndrome'

http://www.geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=48617

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

It appears that about 25-30% of Enigmas have this 'syndrome'. Currently, there is an extensive study being conducted at Texas A&M on the Enigmas. Some interesting preliminary data has been generated, but we will have to wait until the study is complete before the full results can be publicized.

 

[robin]

As of right now not a lot is known about enigmas. Its fairly new and one of those things that just popped up unexpectedly. Its suggested to not breed 2 enigmas together cause some believe that it may cause more a risk to getting the defect associated with spinning and the other symptoms. But yes most breeders are working to not breed any enigma showing the signs of the issues associated with the morph. I for one have a good line of enigmas that which none have shown the tell tell signs yet but so do other breeders. I am sure that after a while we will have got that bred out of them.

it is not new at all. no matter the breeder it can effect all enigmas no ones line is free of the possibility of enigma getting the spins/wobbles. all enigmas came from the same place, mark bell. so this "line" or that "line" of not having it or the possibility of having it is pure BS.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

There is no 'line' of Enigmas other than Mark Bell's line. They ALL came from the original Enigmas produced by Reptile Industries. To say that someone has a 'line' of Enigmas that do not carry any of the symptoms of the 'syndrome' is a false notion. They may not exhibit any symptoms, but they all carry the genetic predisposition to produce Enigma offspring that DO have the syndrome.

I have several Enigmas that do not exhibit any issues, but they have produced offspring that do. Also, I have has Enigmas that did not exhibit any symptoms, but developed them literally overnight when they were bred or shipped. I have taken Enigmas to reptile shows that had absolutely no problems, but by the end of the show were circling... no doubt from the stress and bright lights. When I got them home, their symptoms disappeared.

Once the results of the in-depth study being performed are complete and made public, I think we will have to re-think the ethical questions in regard to whether or not to allow the Enigma to reproduce, or simply accept that this is a behavior that is unique to the morph and live with it.

 

[Retribution Reptiles]

Could there be a possiblity of breeding to unrelated sub-species to incorperate a "new" blood line of enigma to attempt to reduce the issues? I'm aware this would take many generations to aquire enough data to see any type of result. Just an idea.

 

[robin]

Could there be a possiblity of breeding to unrelated sub-species to incorperate a "new" blood line of enigma to attempt to reduce the issues? I'm aware this would take many generations to aquire enough data to see any type of result. Just an idea.

a lot of outcrossing has been done since their introduction and thus far there is really no change.

 

[Wandering Paddle]

a lot of outcrossing has been done since their introduction and thus far there is really no change.

A&M reported on late night leos a while ago that they had crossed enigmas to many subspecies with great success. If i recall correctly they said that the fasciolatus crosses were not showing any "symptoms"...

Truthfully though, i dont think it can ever be 'bred out'. I think it is just part of the mutation, a genetic defect...

 

[robin]

A&M reported on late night leos a while ago that they had crossed enigmas to many subspecies with great success. If i recall correctly they said that the fasciolatus crosses were not showing any "symptoms"...

Truthfully though, i dont think it can ever be 'bred out'. I think it is just part of the mutation, a genetic defect...

thing is as marcia said they may have not been showing any symptoms at the time. i doubt breeding them with subspecies would be the cure all. we could only wish and yes at this time i do think it can be bred out

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Could there be a possiblity of breeding to unrelated sub-species to incorperate a "new" blood line of enigma to attempt to reduce the issues? I'm aware this would take many generations to aquire enough data to see any type of result. Just an idea.

This is what most of the people working with Enigmas are thinking and doing. The problem is that the Enigma is a co-dominant genetic trait, so if it's crossed with any other morph half of the offspring will be Enigmas... and about 20-25% of them express the 'syndrome'. Time will tell if outcrossing is the answer.

 

[GekkoGalaksen]

We have crossed a couple of Enigma with W/Y this season...non of the babies have any syndrome. But what will happen with the next generation? We will know next season...

 

[jayson]

wow

thank you all very much for your input and links...this is very interesting and kind of sad.but again thank you all.

SINCERELY,
JAYSON RAFTER