Fair Market Value!?!?!?

[crotaphytidae]

I have to agree with the sudden down turn in prices, it caught me off guard for sure. With this economy though, it was kind of expected. Economists are predicting that we will see an upturn in the economy some time next year but I'm pulling for sooner. Also it is my opinion that any responsible breeder will try to be competitive with pricing and at the same time try to not flush the market and keep the prices within a fair, plateaued (if that's a word) state. I do think though that the prices that are so low will drive those out of the hobby who are only in it for the money, don't get me wrong those of us who love breeding for the sake of breeding still like to make money to at the very least sustain our collections. And those who do leave due to market value pressure won't be a great loss because the quality wasn't that great to begin with (not directed at any one person just in general) just to turn a quick buck and this will ensure the high quality standards most of us value will continue in the breeding stock we provide those who are beginning or those who are seasoned to start their own project and grow this hobby. The way I see it is this will weed out those who shouldn't be breeding in the first place, and this hobby is relatively young compared to dogs, birds, fish, among others so lets ride this storm and see what great things will come out of it.

 

[Mel&Keith]

If the insults don't stop this thread is going to be closed. Keep it on topic and keep the personal comments out of it.

 

[wilomn]

Dangit, see there, stepped in that puddle of estrogen. Good thing I wasn't wearing my new sneakers.

 

[dprince]

There isn't a "sudden turn in prices", IMHO. I see a predictable price drop on geckos once there is a large number of them (insert name of fancy new morph here.) This happens ALL THE TIME with leopard geckos, because they're relatively easy to breed, and they can be ready to breed very early - you could have several generations in two years!! It just doesn't take long to produce - or overproduce - various gecko morphs, particularly the dominant ones.

I firmly believe that most people who breed do it because they love it. But for most people, in addition to the love/passion/whatever, there is at least the HOPE of having your hobby pay for itself at least, if not making a smidge of extra cash. The reality of this - it takes years to become "flush" with your initial investment, let alone turn a profit - is what drives away more breeders. I know of several breeders who have quit breeding - or not even started!! - because the cost was too high, the time spent was too much, etc. It has nothing to do with riding the tide..........sometimes circumstances have much more to do with this than "weeding out" bad breeders. Believe me, there are plenty of bad breeders who are still breeding, and will still be breeding, when many of the "good" breeders have called at quits.

 

[crotaphytidae]

Those are very good points Debbie, and I do agree with them in addition to what I stated. But I still think that the way things currently are is in part due to the slacking economy. I have seen some breeders drop their prices by up to 30%, and to me that seems a little much in just a few months time. But you are right their are probably a lot of good people/ breeders who struggle to the point of having to abandon ship and it is to bad to see or hear about those instances. Thanks for a different perspective. :main_thumbsup:

 

[dprince]

Those are very good points Debbie, and I do agree with them in addition to what I stated. But I still think that the way things currently are is in part due to the slacking economy. I have seen some breeders drop their prices by up to 30%, and to me that seems a little much in just a few months time. But you are right their are probably a lot of good people/ breeders who struggle to the point of having to abandon ship and it is to bad to see or hear about those instances. Thanks for a different perspective. :main_thumbsup:

No prob. The economy may be affecting things a bit, but I remember in an earlier thread about this very issue, Paul Sage had some great insight:

I haven't been following the reptile market at all for the past several months, so I really can't speculate on that in particular. However, I was working in the retail pet industry back during the 9/11 attacks and remember the concerns over the economy then. There was a survey/report done on how the pet industry reacts to national crises and economic depressions. I was initially shocked to hear that the pet industry fares significantly better than most other industries during such times; it turns out that such turmoil causes people to turn toward things that bring them comfort and joy--which for many just so happens to be their animals/pets.

I'm not saying that I think the current state of the economy is going to be "good" for the reptile industry, I'm just saying that I doubt it will suffer nearly as much as other industries. Keep in mind that if there is a notable increase in the supply of Leopard Geckos on the market, that the selling prices are going to decrease regardless of the status of the economy unless a sufficiently comparable increase in demand for those animals occurs at the same time. Furthermore, don't let one morph paint the picture for the entire market; just because a newer morph is going through its natural and inevitable decrease in market value doesn't mean that all morphs are suddenly "worth" less. Granted, as the supply of the newer morphs increases and the price drops, some consumers are going to spend their money on the newer morph instead of more established morphs. Think of it like Leopard Geckos competing with themselves on the market.

I thought that was an equally interesting perspective.

 

[crotaphytidae]

That was very good insight from Paul, thanks for sharing.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Dangit, see there, stepped in that puddle of estrogen.

Wes, you know dang well that I no longer have any estrogen, so cut the BS. (Sorry for going off-topic, Maurice.)

Maybe I have a fatalistic view of things right now, but with so many leopard geckos for sale on the market right now, many people will be lucky just to be able to sell them. It's a buyer's market, and people will be willing to pay the price for the 'right' gecko, and if the seller is desperate to sell their over-abundance of "inventory", the prices are bound to drop. The difference will be buying from someone who's geckos are 'inventory items' vs. someone who has a good reputation for having outstanding animals, above-and-beyond customer service, and a commitment to the animals and the buyers. There is a H-U-G-E difference.

You get what you pay for.

 

[KelliH]

dubya dubya dubya dot estrogen dot net.



^^inside joke^^

 

[Sunrise Reptile]

Sorry for going off-topic, Maurice.

No worries, my beloved MOGL.

 

[Baoh]

By the way, the thread isn't about somebody's loss of an animal! Although I'm sorry it happened, that's completely off-topic. So let's discuss the topic at hand, shall we?

I discussed the topic at hand. I'm sorry I burdened you with so many extra words on a screen.

 

[Sunrise Reptile]

Actually it's you who has no clue who you're talking to.

Pay close attention! I said "talking about".

Ignorance is bliss.

Nope, to Ignore is bliss! :main_laugh: *Click*

 

[wilomn]

Pay close attention! I said "talking about".



Nope, to Ignore is bliss! :main_laugh: *Click*

Like you could.

 

[leonut]

Like you could.

Seriously can we just drop it? :angry:

As for the prices, I've noticed this too. The prices of the animals are for the breeder to decide. Unfortunately this effects everyone else also.

 

[KelliH]

Prices always fall fast in the leo world, with the exception of the exceptional line bred stuff. Always have, always will.

 

[Nigel4less]

Prices always fall fast in the leo world, with the exception of the exceptional line bred stuff. Always have, always will.

Best Answer Yet! Thank you Kelli :main_thumbsup:

 

[Retribution Reptiles]

I think that is why Albey, Craig, Steve and company are able to keep there prices where they are due to excellent line breeding. With the mass flooding of the market of the double and triple recessive morphs those prices will fall. Not near as drastic as the dom morphs but hey the leo market is what it is.

I believe that since i am the new kid on the street that i have a heavy burden on my shoulders to prove alot of people wrong that there are still good people out there that just got into leos a little late.

I would have to say that MOGL would back up my credibility if asked. I think that there are many people out there that do think that this is an earn money fast adventure.

The other day i was adding up all the money that i have invested myself into getting setup. Mind you I don't buy anything that is cheap or a quick fix for something, but 3 AP racks, 1 NS incubator, countless feeders and breeding stock. It all comes to well over 4-5k and that's just a small setup that i have. I know that there is no chance in hades that i wont see any type of breaking even until my 3-4 season.

So enough of my babbleing...enjoy..thanks for reading and yes i agree with what kelli said.

 

[justindh1]

Being that i am new and just into breeding puts me at the low end with the knowledge of pricing and the leopard gecko market as a breeder. Prices will always vary up and down with the economy and thats the main reason that prices have been affected negatively lately. Most of the "buyers" can't afford a gecko over 1 or 2 hundred dollars or don't wanna spend that much so they look for lower end morph. Now with that, these $300+ geckos can't get sold. The people that buy these are breeders or people that really really love leopard geckos. People are affraid to invest in that morph because people arn't buying as much right now and they see that as being a high risk like in any other business. #1 culprit is the economy. Even the biggest breeders right now are limiting themselves this year.

Like someone has said in a ealrier post, some people are having trouble selling or even are getting out of breeding period and are desperate to sell and get rid of what they need to, thus they price leos low. They arn't protecting the market, they are protecting themselves and you can't blame them 100%!

As for the initial price to become a breeder, most that are in it today have slowly got their stock, supplies and everything else up over a period of time. They started off small and then got bigger once the market lets them. A small investment turns into a business down the road and not right off the bat. They expand with the market and the market allows them to. You can't judge how big you'll be because the market will do that for you. If you think that jumping in with all the right and best equipment the first year is gonna do it then your wrong. A business like this starts off as a hobby most the time and expands as the years go. There's people like this that come up and fall everyday! Start slow and strong and build up from there.

If i'm wrong or off base then let me know!:main_thumbsup:

 

[mynewturtle]

I have been dissapointed about this, but it was expected. In my eyes you get what you pay for, if you want to pay 40 $ for a gecko then you get a 40 $ gecko. If you choose to pay some more money for a gecko, your investment will most likely pay off. Now this being said, in some cases you can find an amazing gecko for very cheap, I think this is what most people are upset with. When you can get your gecko for $300.00 fairly easily and you choose to sell it for 100 or 150 I feel that that is disrespectful to all the breeders that work so hard. I really don't care if you have your car broke down or whatever. You should never feel the need to understock your animals.

Continue producing geckos that are quality and you will hopefully find the customer that is willing to pay that price. I know when I'm shopping I hate that word CHEAP, in my eyes if your list your geckos cheap, their CHEAP geckos. I prefer affordable.

I hope you guys get what I am trying to say I typed it fast didn't really read it over.

 

[BuryinDespair]

I really wanted to chime in on this, because it's touchy and fun to discuss relevant and interesting topics such as this.

I'm actually interested to see what prices do when the economy picks up. The market will have plenty of amazing and few-of-a-kind morphs available by then. Who knows, the value of everything might increase a bit! Plus, I was unsure about the prices earlier, but if they didn't include shipping that's really whatever the price plus a good 40-50 dollars. So 75 becomes 125, etc. If that's the price with shipping, and you don't have to factor it in later, then yeah that's kinda cheap.

I picked up a SHT Enigma het Red Eyed Bell for 60 back in May, felt like a steal. But who knows, might be terrible genetically speaking. We all takes risks. If she produces crappy offspring, i'm out 60 bucks in a breeder aspect, but either way she's an amazing and beautiful pet, so I made out like a bandit as well.

I think I stayed on topic...