Having a child to save a child!?

[Retribution Reptiles]

I love the fact that you guys think you know what i would do. I've been living with myself for 27 years i think i know myself better then anyone other then my parents and my sister.

I know that i can accept the fact that people die. It's a natural part of life. I don't know why everyone fears it like it's the worst thing on earth. Why extend life only to have someone suffer. That's selfish.

 

[dprince]

It would be a lot sooner if we got the churches out of our government and let the scientists work with stem cells...

Absolutely. :main_thumbsup:

 

[dprince]

I know it's not nice to answer a question with a question, but...

Is it ethically sound to sit by and watch a child suffer and eventually die, knowing that there was something you could have done to save their life?

Have a child to save the life of another child? Without hesitation, YES!

I TOTALLY agree. Then I would have another child to love, and potentially save the life of the child I already love. :main_yes:

 

[dprince]

Well, that's true. Children aren't born selfish at all, and that's not what I was trying to say. This kid might end up being proud as heck for playing such a positive role...

I was just saying that he or she may have some psychological difficulties with the entire situation as well, and may or may not have some problems with it at some point.

I obviously don't have children of my own. But I would do anything for my child, if I had one. My concern is for the kids mental well-being.

I think your concerns are valid. However, I also believe that how the parents deal with the situation - that they make sure and express to their children how much they love and wanted that "special" child - goes a long way to a kid's mental well being. That goes for parents of ALL kids - not just the "genetically engineered" ones.

 

[KelliH]

I love the fact that you guys think you know what i would do. I've been living with myself for 27 years i think i know myself better then anyone other then my parents and my sister.

I know that i can accept the fact that people die. It's a natural part of life. I don't know why everyone fears it like it's the worst thing on earth. Why extend life only to have someone suffer. That's selfish.

You know, I take back what I said before, that if you had a child you would do anything possible to save it's life. I see now I was wrong, and you are the exception to just about every person I know at least. My guess is that you don't ever plan on having children of your own, and there is nothing wrong with that at all. Some people are not meant to procreate.

Accepting death is something completely different than trying to save another's life. I would die for my son if it would save his life. If I could save his life by having another baby, I would, and I would love that child just as deeply as I love my son. The love one feels for their own child is stronger than any other love, which is why I said earlier that if you had one you would understand (or I thought you would).

 

[dprince]

You know, I take back what I said before, that if you had a child you would do anything possible to save it's life. I see now I was wrong, and you are the exception to just about every person I know at least. My guess is that you don't ever plan on having children of your own, and there is nothing wrong with that at all. Some people are not meant to procreate.

Accepting death is something completely different than trying to save another's life. I would die for my son if it would save his life. If I could save his life by having another baby, I would, and I would love that child just as deeply as I love my son. The love one feels for their own child is stronger than any other love, which is why I said earlier that if you had one you would understand (or I thought you would).

Kelli, I couldn't have said it any better myself.

 

[herpencounter]

You know, I take back what I said before, that if you had a child you would do anything possible to save it's life. I see now I was wrong, and you are the exception to just about every person I know at least. My guess is that you don't ever plan on having children of your own, and there is nothing wrong with that at all. Some people are not meant to procreate.

Accepting death is something completely different than trying to save another's life. I would die for my son if it would save his life. If I could save his life by having another baby, I would, and I would love that child just as deeply as I love my son. The love one feels for their own child is stronger than any other love, which is why I said earlier that if you had one you would understand (or I thought you would).

I don't have any children, and I am not planning on having any soon, but I totally understand what a parent feels.

I love genetics so this conversation is bad ass lol.




Ryan-

I have no fear of dieing (crap happens what are you going to do), but the last thing I want to do is die. To me what you are saying is, I don't fear death, but I don't care if I live or die... O.O

Oh! And Ryan you said,

I don't know why everyone fears it like it's the worst thing on earth.

So what is the worst thing???

J.

 

[eric]

Why shouldn't one believe there's equal likelihood that this second child feels proud that it played a role in saving its siblings life? Children aren't born selfish. :main_no:

I absolutely agree 100%!

 

[Barbel]

I love the fact that you guys think you know what i would do. I've been living with myself for 27 years i think i know myself better then anyone other then my parents and my sister.

I know that i can accept the fact that people die. It's a natural part of life. I don't know why everyone fears it like it's the worst thing on earth. Why extend life only to have someone suffer. That's selfish.

When your child, or anyone, is terminal and there is absolutely nothing you can do to save them, then yes, you need to learn to accept their death; but when a doctor tells you you can do something to improve, extend, or especially SAVE their life and you don't do it because you are worried about medical expenses, going through a pregnancy, or any other ways it may affect YOU negatively, that is selfish.
And just because a person is living with a disease does not mean they are suffering.

 

[mutley375]

It would be a lot sooner if we got the churches out of our government and let the scientists work with stem cells...

First, I don't want the government involved in anything to do with me or my family. Medicine, what makes the "perfect" child, wall color they need to mind their own.

If it took the gift of a new child to heel one of the two I have, so be it, if that child was not sacrificed, and it is WHAT MY WIFE AND I FELT IS BEST FOR US! That child would be a champion in the family for their contribution, known or unknown.

Once you get into hand picking genetics who is gonna set the standards, your friends in Washington?
We would all have our definitions of the " perfect" child.
We are adopting a little girl that to many is genetically flawed. To us she could not be MORE PERFECT. So am I out of touch because I see absolutely no flaw in her? Should she be ignored because the scientists couldn't remove her extra chromosome?
Keep hoping for your "perfection" and I will take the hand I'm delt and enjoy the ride.

 

[Tony C]

Wow, take things out of context and overreact much?

 

[herpencounter]

First, I don't want the government involved in anything to do with me or my family. Medicine, what makes the "perfect" child, wall color they need to mind their own.

I don't think anybody said anything about forcing you to do anything.

Ever use medicine? The scientist that made the drug where most likely funded by the government. I guess next time you get sick don't go the doctor. The government might have been involved and nobody wants that.

Once you get into hand picking genetics who is gonna set the standards, your friends in Washington?

What the hell???

Should she be ignored because the scientists couldn't remove her extra chromosome?

Could you elaborate on this I don't think I understand.

If I am correct.... There is nothing that could have been done. I don't think there is a known way to reverse Trisomy G/Trisomy 21. Oh! And TriG will never be ignored until there is a way to stop it.

Keep hoping for your "perfection" and I will take the hand I'm delt and enjoy the ride.

Not planning on having kids anytime soon, but if I ever do, I hope I can deal the cards, and give my child/children the best possible health/life possible.




I didn't want to reply to this, but it started eating at me, and I felt I needed to respond.

I don't agree with you at all, but I do want to understand your position. Enlighten me HAHA :main_laugh:.


Josiah.

 

[Tony C]

We are adopting a little girl that to many is genetically flawed. To us she could not be MORE PERFECT. So am I out of touch because I see absolutely no flaw in her? Should she be ignored because the scientists couldn't remove her extra chromosome?

I had to come back to this one, just to clarify. You're saying that if there was a genetic therapy to cure her Down syndrome, you would not do it? You would feel an ethical obligation deny her the chance at a normal lifespan, a family of her own and unimpaired cognitive ability? Why, because that is how she was "created" ? I don't know where you got the idea that I think people with genetic illnesses or defects are not worth loving or should be ignored, because I don't. I just think it's horrible that some people would deny the chance at a normal life to their children because it goes against the creation myth of an ancient middle eastern tribe.

 

[herpencounter]

I had to come back to this one, just to clarify. You're saying that if there was a genetic therapy to cure her Down syndrome, you would not do it? You would feel an ethical obligation deny her the chance at a normal lifespan, a family of her own and unimpaired cognitive ability? Why, because that is how she was "created" ? I don't know where you got the idea that I think people with genetic illnesses or defects are not worth loving or should be ignored, because I don't. I just think it's horrible that some people would deny the chance at a normal life to their children because it goes against the creation myth of an ancient middle eastern tribe.

+1


I was going to comment on that, but I wouldn't have been as nice...

 

[mutley375]

I didn't mean to flip my lid. Everyone reflects from their own experiences and feelings. I don't know yours, you don't know mine .
My tangent on genetics was the idea of meddling prebirth to change this or that to change the child. (i.e. i want blond hair blue eyes and so on). Thinking more of all the what ifs of it...
I understand that government funds medicine and alot of other things but I fear them having their hands in EVERYTHING to the point that they say jump and tell you how high at the same time.
I would not deny Olga or my birth children any chance at an improved life whether it were medicine, therapy, etc. We are adopting her for a chance at what we consider a "normal" life. A shot to achieve her utmost potential.
If I rubbed anyone the wrong way I apologize I may have taken a wrong turn in thinking as I read through your posts. I appreciate your stance on things, like I said I don't know you and you don't know me.

 

[goReptiles]

IMO if there really is some "higher power", and I don't believe that to be the case, it has done a rather poor job with our genetics. I have a lot more trust in human scientists than a mysterious and unknowable deity.

What I meant by higher power, is more or less nature or whatever God or Gods one believes in. Let nature choose what eye color a child is supposed to have or what hair color. That's not for humans to decide; in a way it is a little egotistical to feel that we should be able to change out children to look how we idealize our children to look.

In a way, I am a hypocrite by saying that bc I would change my child's genes if doctors knew that by removing a chromosone it would prevent an illness or disorder, but that is because for the past 22 years, I was raised with a handicaped brother. It was hard on everyone. If it could have been altered, I can't say my parents would have done so, but it has been hard.

Back to the topic in question though... Personally, I would have another child to save one of my children. I currently do not have children, but I would do it. I just worry about the parents who don't want but one child and have another. Would that second child suffer? Probably not, but it is possible. The other side of the coin is, if the second child saves the first, would the parents hold the new child to a higher pedestal?

 

[hoppergirl]

I had to come back to this one, just to clarify. You're saying that if there was a genetic therapy to cure her Down syndrome, you would not do it? You would feel an ethical obligation deny her the chance at a normal lifespan, a family of her own and unimpaired cognitive ability? Why, because that is how she was "created" ? I don't know where you got the idea that I think people with genetic illnesses or defects are not worth loving or should be ignored, because I don't. I just think it's horrible that some people would deny the chance at a normal life to their children because it goes against the creation myth of an ancient middle eastern tribe.

Couldn't resist to comment...

I'm sure that any parent in their situation would do anything and everything they could to help their child live the best life possible. If there were genetic therapies to cure any of these illnesses there isn't a parent I know that wouldn't seriously consider it.

Life begins at conception and stem cell research would cause anyone of like mindedness to question that course of treatment. Why not be blessed with another life and have the hope of saving your other child? People would not deny their children that option but would they deny the potential child a chance at any life at all? It's ironic that you say "not worth loving or ignored". I think the only people who can truly pass judgement are those who are actually legitimate parents themselves. The love you feel for your child is indescribable and I would not reccomend passing judgement until you are a parent.

And I'm not even going to touch on your severe misconceptions about creation.

 

[Tony C]

And I'm not even going to touch on your severe misconceptions about creation.

Creation is the misconception, the idea of life on earth being created and guided by a god or other mysterious higher power does not hold up under rational examination.

 

[hoppergirl]

Creation is the misconception, the idea of life on earth being created and guided by a god or other mysterious higher power does not hold up under rational examination.

I respectfully disagree. The universe had a beginning. Starting with the Science has rationally examined, has confirmed the Biblical view that the universe had a beginning. Science used to be dominated by the theory of uniformitarianism. Now, science completely rejects this and we know the universe had a beginning. Lucky guess or Creation? I'm open to hearing any other explaination of it. How then does a child get here? They are created, formed, shaped in their parents image.

 

[KelliH]

It actually hurts my brain if I think too long and hard about how the universe came to be LOL. So I just accept that it did, and figure if I was meant to know how it became, I would!