i bred...

[Azazel]

Pat: I have two amel bloodlines in my collection. Some from USA while some from Malaysia. But I could not pin point the exact lines for the ones that have been established in Malaysia. Nobody is revealing anything. They could have originated from Canada, USA or Africa. I got them when they were 3 days old...when I don't even know what fat-taileds were LOL! And I bought them all. I sold some and kept aside some (the cool looking ones ). And the guy who bred them has now quit the hobby. All I know is that they are amels because I have tested them. But they all look like normal amels to me. Just that some are freaking orange compared to the others.

Here's another thing I'm afraid off ie we all know that this combo is fatal right. And mine hatched only a few days ago. Although I'm happy but I'm afraid too. What if they die (TOUCHWOOD!!!)?! So far they haven't eaten anything yet. But they are still fat and healthy. So maybe they are not hungry. Anyway, only time will tell whether these are hets (or rather workable hets) or not. I need to test breed them first.

P.s. I'm guessing you already know I got her from Thad since you mentioned Ohio. Did you ask whether he bred her before selling to me?

 

[Azazel]

Paul: You want to know what else is ridiculous? Bell blizzards. I was told that the alleles do not match. And still Steve (Sykes) managed to hatch them. What's that all about? Haha!

 

[SFgeckos]

Congrats!!! Keep us updated on your project!

I know exactly what you mean about "fatal combinations" or "weak" lines. With animals, sometimes you just never know. Patience, determination and sometimes plain luck helps!

I remember in the late 1990's when I started working with N. pilbarensis EVERYONE said the albinos and hets were weak, they were blind and didn't eat, etc, etc. A small handful of hobbyists in California decided to work together, grow animals slowly, and swap different bloodlines/share husbandry/incubation tips...now look at albino N. pilbarensis almost 15 years later! I can't believe they are all over North America, Europe, and Asia now! Some of the original animals from that project lived almost ten years with me. It makes me smile when I see photos on the internet of albino pilbars to see my great-great-great-great grand offspring!

Jon

 

[T-ReXx]

Congrats, I hope they prove out. The ability to cross into other morphs would give the amel gene a tremendous boost and open the door to a variety of potential combinations. As far as I know, one other person has claimed success in making hets; Craig at The Urban Gecko in Canada, but I haven't heard any updates on that project in quite a while so I'm not sure where it ended up. Many people in the US have tried the cross(and others with the amel gene) and failed, there may be a difference of lines, there may be something peculiar about your animals that is different from other amels(I speculate on some sort of unknown added genetic "ingredient" to some amels that may allow them to combine successfully with other genes, but that's pure speculation and I have no data to back it up). There's very little actually known about fattail genetics, really, I mean look at the mystery of the stripe, and that form occurs naturally yet no one agrees completely on the genetics behind it. There's still much to learn about them and no way to say that a visual amel whiteout etc isn't possible really. Time will tell. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[KelliH]

Paul: You want to know what else is ridiculous? Bell blizzards. I was told that the alleles do not match. And still Steve (Sykes) managed to hatch them. What's that all about? Haha!

I hatched one in 2005. That stuff about the alleles and Bell Blazings is, and always was, hogwash!

 

[Azazel]

Jon: I wanted to dive into pilbarensis last time. Unfortunately, the same rumor kept coming my way that I decided to wait. This is because the price the animals demand with the rumors that I had been hearing were too overwhelming, especially when I am still considered as a newbie in this market. But if they are what you say they are, I think I will be adding more Nephrurus into my collection.

Ted: By any chance you have a link, pictures or any other documentary evidence of the claim made by TUG? And whatever happen to their Black Pearl project?

Kelly: Thanks for the heads up. I was earlier understood that GETC was the one who came out with the mutation first until you posted the above comment. I need to read more I guess

 

[SFgeckos]

"Jon: I wanted to dive into pilbarensis last time. Unfortunately, the same rumor kept coming my way that I decided to wait. This is because the price the animals demand with the rumors that I had been hearing were too overwhelming, especially when I am still considered as a newbie in this market. But if they are what you say they are, I think I will be adding more Nephrurus into my collection."

It sounds like you made a very intelligent and well thought out decision. I think the rumors have remained alive mainly because the vast majority of individuals who purchase them see these living creatures as an "investment" with quick return, rather than for appreciating the beauty and uniqueness of these geckos (just my personal observations). I often see new keepers purchase higher end geckos, then post photos all over the net and 2-3 years later they are "out" of the hobby/geckos. Patience and eye for detail are definitely keys to success with Nephrurus. I believe for long term success (and my experiences correlate) that females shouldn't be pushed/grown fast or bred as early as they often are.

I'll give a real example: Virgin 9-12 month old ovulating female N. pilbar can be bred at 17 grams, perhaps lay 3-5 clutches, some infertiles and maybe some hatchlings are strong/hatch. If you've seen a pilbar female after she lays, she's 12-14 grams and can barely regain enough energy/weight for her next clutch. A few seasons like that and she's bye bye! (Main reason why so many knob females die early or hatchlings die in egg/hatchlings are weak) But if you waited 18-36 months before breeding this same female, she is now a 20-23+ gram female and can produce larger/healthy eggs, plus recover faster after each clutch. A larger sized female also has slightly more fat storage/bone structure for calcium etc. I know of some knob females that are 7+ years old and still producing on this "slow growth" protocol. Yes, females may take longer to produce and perhaps produce less clutches per season but long term they will outproduce and live longer (more years of production, plus stronger/healthy offspring). Hope that info helps!

ps- Rumors are rumors. I've seen with my own eyes almost an entire RACK of albino N. pilbars. The particular hobbyist maintains his collection in the above described manner and works with geckos for "fun".

Jon
*edit* Should also mention I sometimes give females a year or two off

 

[T-ReXx]

I don't know of any links from TUG about the cross, but I do know in an interview on a Blog talk radio show Craig mentioned the success he's had with patternless X amel. My advise would be to email him, perhaps if you both have had success crossing the amel gene with other morphs you can put your heads together and maybe figure out anything your animals have in common. I know his amel line was supposedly seperate from many of the others in the US.

 

[PetVet]

I know nothing of Fat Tail genetics so I won't even pretend, but I do know that when I took my genetics class we learned that a lot of animals have "fatal genes". The combinations mostly result in death prior to being born but a very small percentage actually make it out.
I have also heard that there is a big difference between incubating leo's & fatties and perhaps the Malaysian location is a big helping factor when it comes to this, gives the already low hatching rate an added boost perhaps?
Idk, like I said, very ignorant in this area.

 

[Azazel]

I don't know of any links from TUG about the cross, but I do know in an interview on a Blog talk radio show Craig mentioned the success he's had with patternless X amel. My advise would be to email him, perhaps if you both have had success crossing the amel gene with other morphs you can put your heads together and maybe figure out anything your animals have in common. I know his amel line was supposedly seperate from many of the others in the US.

You mean whiteout X amel?

An update...they JUST ATE! WOOT! :main_thumbsup: LOL!

 

[Azazel]

Here are some updated pictures (taken with my blackberry). Hope they are clear enough. At the moment, I think I just got 3 and 1 sibling from the first and second clutch. But I am not sure. Based on the pictures, how many do you see?!

Thanks!