Raptor stizzuff

[preacherman]

Hello everyone,

I guess I'll get this section started. This topic has probably been brought up before on other forums, but I'm relatively new to forums, so here it goes.
For those of you working with R.A.P.T.O.R.s, what conclusions have you come to, if any, regarding the red-eyed gene? Has it behaved like a simple recessive for you or not?
Also, how do you feel about using "het" terminology to describe those individuals that may carry the raptor genes? As in breeding a raptor to normals and calling the offspring "het for raptor". Is there more appropriate terminology that we should be using?
One more question: how many licks does it take to get to the tootsie roll center of a tootsie pop?

 

[KelliH]

Jason, great questions.

Here are some results I have had with Raptor breedings.

Red Eyed Raptor X Red Eyed Raptor = all Red Eyed Raptor (I know others have had different results)

Red Eyed Raptor X Albino Het Aptor = Red Eyed Raptor, Snake Eyed Raptor, Aptor, Reverse Stripe Albino

Red Eyed Raptor X (Red Stripe X Reverse Stripe Albino) = Red Eyed Raptor, Snake Eyed Raptor, Eclipse, Snake Eyed Eclipse, Striped/Reverse Stripe Albino and non Albino

and here is the most interesting one

(Red Stripe x Reverse Stripe Giant Albino) X (Red Stripe X Reverse Stripe Giant Albino) = Red Eyed Raptor, Snake Eyed Raptor, Jungle/Stripe/Reverse Stripe Albino and non Albino, Snake Eyed Eclipse

Here is my theory on the Raptor trait. I know Alberto of A & M Gecko agrees with me and is actually the one that had this theory before me or anyone else.

Strip X Reverse Stripe = Stripes, Jungles, Reverse Stripe, "Patternless Stripes"

"Patternless Stripes" are the non albino form of Aptor

Breed two "Patternless Stripes" together and you will produce Eclipses

So anyone can have their own "homemade" Solid black or red eyed leos.

 

[Cryptly]

I'm not sure about the RAPTOR genetics, but I do know that it takes around 456 licks to get to the center of a tootsie pop.

Bored College Students + Guiness + Candy = Pointless Experimentation

 

[TheHiddenGecko]

I'm just curious, but what does breeding the patternless stripes have to do with the eyes?

 

[KelliH]

I'm just curious, but what does breeding the patternless stripes have to do with the eyes

It appears that the solid eye trait is connected to the patternless stripes. Maybe a "super" form? Not exactly sure on that yet, but it is definitely connected.

 

[StormGecko]

Kelli,

That's really interesting regarding the patternless stripes. Do you seem to be able to get patternless stripes from any stripe x reverse stripe pairing, or does it seem to only occur in certain lines? It would be really fun to experiment with this from geckos of different lines and see if you still get the patternless stripes. What lines have you been able to produce the patternless stripes from thus far? Thanks for posting the info, this really captures my interest!

 

[Jeanne]

Kelli,

That's really interesting regarding the patternless stripes. Do you seem to be able to get patternless stripes from any stripe x reverse stripe pairing, or does it seem to only occur in certain lines? It would be really fun to experiment with this from geckos of different lines and see if you still get the patternless stripes. What lines have you been able to produce the patternless stripes from thus far? Thanks for posting the info, this really captures my interest!

Yeah, I seem to remember people always mentioning the Red Stripes when talking about Patternless Stripes, not sure where I read all of this , probably on Fauna somewhere.

 

[preacherman]

Thanks for the great info Kelli. What are your thoughts regarding the snake-eyed trait? Do you think it has anything to do with incubation temps? Also, what do think about the "het" terminology?

 

[BalloonzForU]

I'm not sure about the RAPTOR genetics, but I do know that it takes around 456 licks to get to the center of a tootsie pop.

Bored College Students + Guiness + Candy = Pointless Experimentation

Thanks Krystal. I always wondered about that!

 

[LeosForLess]

So if i have a homemade red stripe, cross it to a reverse stripe albino, i could possible make Patternless Stripes?

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

Noone really knows if any Stripe X Reverse Stripe breeding can produce Patternless Stripes. We produced some of the first ever. In my case and in Alberto`s (A&M Gecko), the "Patternless Stripes" came from RED Stripe X Reverse Stripe Albino. There are also some Red Stripes that hatch w/ the same type of lack of pattern.

I do remember seeing "Patternless" geckos from APTOR X JGA, now we are seeing some Red Eyes from RAPTOR X JGA, as well.

Not only the Patternless geckos can produce red eyes, but so can the ones that carry the gene/s for that pattern. "Het APTORs" can produce RAPTORs, the pattern does not matter.

Once you can create "Patternless", it is that combination of genes that can produce the "Eclipse" eyes.

As far as the "Snake Eyes" I strongly believe that just not all RAPTORs have solid eyes, and that they are the same genetically.

 

[KelliH]

That's really interesting regarding the patternless stripes. Do you seem to be able to get patternless stripes from any stripe x reverse stripe pairing, or does it seem to only occur in certain lines? It would be really fun to experiment with this from geckos of different lines and see if you still get the patternless stripes. What lines have you been able to produce the patternless stripes from thus far? Thanks for posting the info, this really captures my interest!

Jackie - The ones I have right now are from (Red Stripe x Reverse Stripe Giant Albino) produced by Alberto, and I have some females from Dan Poe that are from (Red Stripe X Reverse Stripe Tremper Albino). I also have two that I produced last year and in 2004 that are from Red Stripe X Reverse Stripe (these are not Het Albino). So I can only speak on those above lines. I have bred a Striped Bell Albino male to the two Patternless Stripe females and have some very neat looking stripe/jungle/patternless stripe Het Bell offspring from those pairings.

What are your thoughts regarding the snake-eyed trait? Do you think it has anything to do with incubation temps? Also, what do think about the "het" terminology?

I'm not sure why the snake eyes hatch out snake eyed and not solid red eyed. I hadn't thought about it being temp related, but anything is possible. As far as the "Het" terminology, I think that it needs to be made clear to buyers that the Raptor trait doesn't appear to work like a simple recessive trait. I have just come to this conclusion myself in the past few days, just going by my own breeding results and that of a couple of others.

Noone really knows if any Stripe X Reverse Stripe breeding can produce Patternless Stripes. We produced some of the first ever. In my case and in Alberto`s (A&M Gecko), the "Patternless Stripes" came from RED Stripe X Reverse Stripe Albino. There are also some Red Stripes that hatch w/ the same type of lack of pattern.

Well, I have to respectfully disagree with you on that one. It seems pretty clear to me that it does. Does Ron Tremper have Red Stripes? Nope, and he is producing a whole bunch of them (Aptors etc). But he does have lots of stripes and reverse stripes, hmm.

I do remember seeing "Patternless" geckos from APTOR X JGA, now we are seeing some Red Eyes from RAPTOR X JGA, as well.

I've hatched Aptors from Raptor X AJG as well. Again, it supports my theroy of some sort of incomplete dominance.

Who has hatched red eyes from Raptor X AJG breedings? That is really interesting, and I would like to get their input on all of this as well.

Both Alberto and myself have had pretty much the exact same results in our breedings, as has Garrick (with the exception of one red eyed "banded" albino that he hatched out that I believe Pat Kline now owns. But that's one out of who knows how many between the three of us, and that was the only one).

Not only the Patternless geckos can produce red eyes, but so can the ones that carry the gene/s for that pattern. "Het APTORs" can produce RAPTORs, the pattern does not matter.

This is great news! Who is producing Red Eyed and Eclipse from normal patterned animals? I want to contact them and talk to them about their results. This is a really interesting topic (would make for a cool Chat topic!) and I think the more information we share, the better!:main_thumbsup:

 

[LeosForLess]

Would Tremper be willing to do a chat on the Raptor/Aptors? Other than his book he hasn treally realeased much on the Raptors. Steve from GeckosEtc told me that he hatched an emerald from an aptor. Anybody know anything else about the emeralds? And does the Red Eye gene only work with trempers?

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

Tangerine Stripe or "Red Stripe"

Sorry should have been more clear on some things.

Ron does have Red Stripes, only they are not called 'Red Stripes' (well now he calls his that occasionally youll see a "Red Striped" APTOR or RAPTOR.) HQR added Rons bloodline to whatever they had going on at the time, and produced what they called RS. Alot of Rons "Eclipse" are what Ide call a RS too. They are IMO two "seperate" lines only because Matt and Susan outcrossed and selectively bred theirs one way. Ron on the other hand produced the APTOR and RAPTOR/ECLIPSE and did things his own way. We all dont get to see what RT breeds with but Im thinking that his stripes are ORANGE:main_cool3: LOL

With that said what I really meant was maybe not all lines of stripes in general. Meaning the ones that are not genetic. I dont know of any lines that arent, but y`all keep telling me on Fauna in the past some are not.

Who has hatched red eyes from Raptor X AJG breedings?

Eh, brain fart Ill get back to you.

Not only the Patternless geckos can produce red eyes, but so can the ones that carry the gene/s for that pattern. "Het APTORs" can produce RAPTORs, the pattern does not matter.

Oops, by that I meant if they are Jungle, Reverse Striped, etc. I do not know about banded "Het APTORs".

Ron was saying he had not produced red eyed jungles, but my first red eyed baby last year was a Jungle. She came from a Reverse Stripe Albino "Het APTOR". I was told there was a slight chance our APTOR was a het (for RAPTOR), but that the Reverse Stripe was not. :main_laugh: So what Im saying is the Jungle or Striped, Reverse Striped "Het APTORs" are able to produce RAPTORs, not just the "Patternless" ones.

Oh how I wish I had a male RAPTOR instead of my "het". LOL He is still a nice boy though:main_yes: Would have helped me see some results a whole lot quicker if I did:main_laugh:

 

[bro paul]

Anyone every notice the gecko at the top of K&N's website? I always thought it looked kind of "aptor-ish"...and I know they worked a lot with jungle Trempers years ago. That gecko has been on their header for years. Perhaps they got the right cross before anyone?

Also, does anyone have a picture of an "emerald" or can you give a brief description? I don't have Ron's book.

 

[LeosForLess]

In his book the emerald looks like a reverse stripe that is blue and green.

 

[eyelids]

I remember you guys talking about this on fauna. Looks like there's some new conclusions too. Keep posting guys I find this very interesting.

 

[LeosForLess]

Can this be done with Bell or Las Vegas?

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

I think it can. You would just need to get some Stripe X Reverse Stripe genes into the mix, then see what happens.

Who has hatched red eyes from Raptor X AJG breedings?

Kelli, it was Matt Panos, he had posted them on Fauna. The mother was his 2+ year old JGA. My "Monstress" (JGA) hopefully will start to lay soon, so we will see.

I think it is very possible all of Rons Jungle Giant Albinos, etc. came from the same line. I mean the same line he hatched the APTOR, and then the Eclipse/ RAPTOR from. Maybe they would all carry the genes?

Like I was saying he seemed very sure my female was not "Het" for RAPTOR, but she was. I dont think he thought any of the "APTOR" were Hets either, but every breeder ( as far as I know)that purchased "APTORs" hatched RAPTORs. Kinda makes you wonder...

 

[MattP]

The thing with that Dan, was that the eggs never hatched and I ended up cutting them open. What was in the egg, was what appeared to be a couple dead RAPTORS. Now, they could have been normal albinos that just appeared to have no pattern because they died while still developing. I have not hatched out any live RAPTOR's from my Jungle Giant Albinos. If Raptor's could have been produced from my JGA, I should have hatched some out by now........... and I haven't. But who knows, I still have JGA in the incubator so we will see......