nasty iguana need to tame quick

[gecko breeder]

ok my little brother has this iguana and its real nast hardly anyone wonts to hold it and he hurts, i have experiance with leopard geckos plated lizards and anols i love reptiles, now a year ago i had to get rid all my reptiles and now i wont them again my mother said i can get a leopard gecko only if i tame the iguana, it lives in a 90 gallon tank right now he isent that big yet but i just want him tamed and good so i can get a gcko please help

 

[jemjdragon]

If you say he's a nasty biter then I'd get some leather gloves to work with him while he's mean. Maybe try to get him to eat from your hand first? I don't remember what my sister did to get her tame, but I do know it loved mangos.

I think though before you handle him out of the cage, get him tame while he's in the cage then move up to having him out of the cage. =]

Edit:
Just found this link. I'm sending you page 2 with the steps on taming the iguana, but page one has some good info too, so I would look it over.
http://exoticpets.about.com/cs/iguanas/a/iguanahandling_2.htm

 

[M_surinamensis]

If you say he's a nasty biter then I'd get some leather gloves to work with him while he's mean. Maybe try to get him to eat from your hand first? I don't remember what my sister did to get her tame, but I do know it loved mangos.

I think though before you handle him out of the cage, get him tame while he's in the cage then move up to having him out of the cage. =]

Edit:
Just found this link. I'm sending you page 2 with the steps on taming the iguana, but page one has some good info too, so I would look it over.
http://exoticpets.about.com/cs/iguanas/a/iguanahandling_2.htm

That link is pretty terrible. Rife with inaccuracies and nonsense. What small amount of good information it contains is hidden under layers of crap. It includes tips that are effective when training a puppy... but which are utterly disconnected from the reality of working with an iguana.

Green iguanas are large, arboreal, territorial harem breeders that can potentially fight off many of their natural predators if they respond aggressively to potential threats. If they are healthy, they display a set of behaviors that makes them pretty poor pets.

The only way to retard or halt these behaviors is to alter the stimulus (the only remotely decent advice on that web page) or make them unhealthy, shifting them to a different set of behavioral triggers.

They cannot be tamed, they cannot be trained. They are not dogs or toddlers and should not be treated like one.

 

[gecko breeder]

iguanas can be tamed as well as a leopard gecko or a bearded dragon can, as for being tamed in the tank thank u that sounds like a good idea, only thing is he lunged and bit me today ugh idk how long this is going to take, im more about leopard geckos, anoles, and plated lizards, but the only lizard that cannot be tamed is the anole, but i know that iguanas can be becase peole do it all the time, the only problem is they play with it when the first get it, this igunana has not been touched in 6 months cuz no one tryed, but now im trying and it may take some time but thank u

 

[M_surinamensis]

iguanas can be tamed

No.

as well as a leopard gecko or a bearded dragon can

Natural docility is not "tame." The word tame has a specific definition and you are misusing it.

but the only lizard that cannot be tamed is the anole

There are somewhere between about five thousand and five thousand two hundred species of lizard, depending on who's taxonomy you like. Even assuming that you mean all of the almost four hundred species of anole, you are going to try to maintain that there are about four thousand six hundred species of lizard that can be tamed.

Well, you're off by ~4,600.

i know that iguanas can be becase peole do it all the time, the only problem is they play with it when the first get it, this igunana has not been touched in 6 months cuz no one tryed, but now im trying and it may take some time but thank u

No.

Some people have docile iguanas.

Docile iguanas are unhealthy iguanas... keep them fifteen degrees cooler than they should be, dehydrate them and feed them a steady diet of crappy foods and yeah- they will be really easy to handle. They can even stay that way for a good decade or so. Doesn't make it a good thing considering they can live an easy twenty-twenty five years if they're kept in optimal conditions and not subjected to substandard care and ignorant neglect.

It is not something to aspire to.

If you do not want an aggressive, territorial lizard, the real trick is to not own a green iguana to begin with.

If you like green iguanas and you want to keep one healthy, then they should be treated like any other species that is suitable only for displays.

 

[T-ReXx]

I agree with M_surinamensis. Reptiles do not enjoy human contact. At best they tolerate it, and in general healthy iguanas can never be trusted not to react defensively, it's in their nature. First of all, green iguanas make BAD pets, they are large, naturally defensive, and the majority of people don't provide the environment and care they require. How old is your brother? If he's under 18 I don't think he should own such a potentially dangerous animal. And although some iguanas are more tolerant of people than others(this is the case with ANY species of animal, they all have individual varations to their personalities) MOST will never be "tame" in the true sense of the word. As mentioned, healthy iguanas are defensive, unhealthy ones are not usually. And there is a BIG difference between a more laid back species like a leopard gecko or BD than a green iguana. my personal advice is, if you are incapable of dealing with a large defensive lizard, you shouldn't own the iguana.

 

[leolover23]

I disagree with you all. I've not much experience with reptiles, I admit, but I do have experience with other animals. I think that some animals are agressive in nature, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't own them. It also doesn't mean that you can't "tame" them. Many animals don't enjoy human contact because it is something foreign and a potential threat. If a giant came and tried to touch you, I'm sure you wouldn't like it either. But, that doesn't mean you could never get used to it, especially when you realize that it wasn't a threat. Animals are not MEAN, they are defensive and scared. So, my advice,is as long as you try and familiarize yourself with the iguana and it's not having an drastic, negative effects on his health, keep trying. I think, with time and patience--a LOT of patience--you can get him to be more friendly. It's gonna take some work, but think of it like a pit bull, or another agressive dog. Some dogs, it's true, cannot be fixed. But some can--and a lizard is MUCH less dangerous than a dog. Good luck, have faith, be patient. Who knows, maybe you'll end up forming a bond with it? (Sorry this post is so long). And, if you're trying to get him friendly with EVERYONE in your house, I'd recommend familiarizing him with the other members in the family. Just protect your fingers!

p.s. A while ago, I read that to help familiarize yourself with hamsters, you could sleep on a sock and then put it in your hamster's cage--to give it your scent. Eventually, it would get used to the scent and then be okay with you. I'm not sure how it would work with an iguana, but it's worth a shot! Best of luck!

 

[M_surinamensis]

I disagree with you all. I've not much experience with reptiles, I admit, but I do have experience with other animals. I think that some animals are agressive in nature, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't own them. It also doesn't mean that you can't "tame" them. Many animals don't enjoy human contact because it is something foreign and a potential threat. If a giant came and tried to touch you, I'm sure you wouldn't like it either. But, that doesn't mean you could never get used to it, especially when you realize that it wasn't a threat. Animals are not MEAN, they are defensive and scared. So, my advice,is as long as you try and familiarize yourself with the iguana and it's not having an drastic, negative effects on his health, keep trying. I think, with time and patience--a LOT of patience--you can get him to be more friendly. It's gonna take some work, but think of it like a pit bull, or another agressive dog. Some dogs, it's true, cannot be fixed. But some can--and a lizard is MUCH less dangerous than a dog. Good luck, have faith, be patient. Who knows, maybe you'll end up forming a bond with it? (Sorry this post is so long). And, if you're trying to get him friendly with EVERYONE in your house, I'd recommend familiarizing him with the other members in the family. Just protect your fingers!

p.s. A while ago, I read that to help familiarize yourself with hamsters, you could sleep on a sock and then put it in your hamster's cage--to give it your scent. Eventually, it would get used to the scent and then be okay with you. I'm not sure how it would work with an iguana, but it's worth a shot! Best of luck!

There is a completely different capacity for adaptive behaviors, memory and learning when comparing an iguana and a mammal like a dog or rodent.

The physical structure of the brain is not remotely the same, the basis for cooperative communal behaviors is not present, the ability to override some instinctive behaviors through declarative thinking is absent.

 

[leolover23]

But that doesn't mean it's not impossible. Like I said, faith and patience. It's not like the iguana is evil or mean, it's defensive and agressive. In many cases, with the above (faith and patience), this, if not correted, can be lessened. And if it doesn't work, you learn from that experience and decide what to do from there. There's no harm in trying, as long as you give it your best. You can't disagree with that, right?

 

[blackadder]

I totally agree with M_surinamensis. My first reptile was an iguana. It is a beautiful animal, and I thought how cool it would be to tame it, and have it sit on my shoulder and walk around my house. Well when it was young it wasn't too bad (not tame(whipped a little) but manageable). After a couple years it became unmanageable (clawed bit and whipped everytime I went near it), and just plain mean. I thought I wasn't working with it enough, so I tried to handle it more. Nothing worked. After many bites and scratches I ended up giving it away. It wasn't until years later and lots of research that I realized that the agressive behavior is the norm, and that it wasn't me that was doing something wrong. I think you need to know that iguanas are naturally aggressive, territorial going into this and that a docile iguana is abnormal.

 

[goReptiles]

This one is a bit harder than you're thinking. It's not impossible, but whether you start young or later in life, iguanas are naturally aggressive. Some develop it later, whereas others are always as such. Definitely consider the leather gloves when handling, but keep in mind iguanas are definitely not for beginners for the reason of their aggressive nature. Tail whips are rather rough.

 

[M_surinamensis]

But that doesn't mean it's not impossible. Like I said, faith and patience. It's not like the iguana is evil or mean, it's defensive and agressive. In many cases, with the above (faith and patience), this, if not correted, can be lessened. And if it doesn't work, you learn from that experience and decide what to do from there. There's no harm in trying, as long as you give it your best. You can't disagree with that, right?

I can disagree with that.

Reptile behavior is pure instinct. There is no sentience, no thought remotely like the internal monologue and conscious decisions we're capable of as big brained mammals.

Stimulus -> Response in patterns that are preprogrammed into them from the moment the zygote forms.

It is important to understand that instinctive is not identical to simple. As a generalization, reptiles are capable of seemingly complex behaviors at times as a direct result of having complex instinctive responses to reflect variables in the perceived stimulus. The response of a young animal won't be identical to that of an adult. The response during the day may not be identical to the response at night. The response to contact from above won't be identical to contact from below. When they last ate, the temperature and humidity, the barometric pressure, the amount of cover available for hiding, if the animal is male or female, if the animal is dominant in its territory* its recent diet, when it last defecated, it's height off the ground when contact is made, the UV intensity and countless, infinite variations that can subtly or not-so-subtly shift the resulting behavior.

Green iguanas however... they really only have a few options when another animal interacts with them when the green iguana is healthy and being kept in ideal environmental conditions. Fight it (predators, rivals, potentially dangerous non-predators), run away from it (predators, rivals that are winning, potentially dangerous non-predators), have sex with it (other iguanas of the opposite gender when the iguana in question has been cycled to breed- otherwise it's a rival for food and basking spots and territory).

The only way to see a response other than those three is when the iguana's health or the environmental conditions are such that it stops behaving like a green iguana. When it's lethargic from temperatures outside of the ideal range. When it's dehydrated or malnourished and fatigued as a result. When it is outright sick from illness or disease. When it is injured (and unable to respond aggressively with success). Negative conditions of some kind need to be imposed in order to push the individual animal away from the healthy, dominant responses of a strong animal and into a state where it simply doesn't respond, allowing itself to be casually handled.

What constantly trying can do is stress the crap out of the animal in question. Keep it out of the ideal conditions found in its enclosure and expose it to suboptimal and less controlled environmental conditions where it's being manhandled or pinned to prevent injury to the person doing it, expending energy in a futile attempt to attack or escape, building up lactic acid in it's muscles, prompting all kinds of chemical secretions associated with fight or flight responses and keeping it on edge and in a state of hightened physiological responses for far longer than their body is built to handle**

The only real, tangible positive change that potentially happens when a keeper handles a reptile with frequency is that the keeper learns to read the animal and learns the behavioral triggers of the species in question and subsequently (often subconsciously) modifies their approach, changing the stimulus experienced by the animal, thus sometimes changing the resulting behavioral response. The person learns things, often without realizing it. What they learn varies by species, since different species have different behavioral triggers. Examples though... some species respond badly when approached from above but are not provoked the same way if they are approached from the sides or lifted from below, some species behave very differently during the day than they do at night and the ambient lighting has a big impact on how they'll respond to being handled, some species are fairly easy to control when lifted or carried but respond in a pretty extreme manner when actively restrained... and so on.

That can apply, to a very small degree, when handling green iguanas. The keeper can learn a few things to avoid and a few approaches that work slightly better- but given the nature of the species and it's relatively narrow field of options (like with many arboreal species), this is of fairly minimal value. A keeper can pretty easily learn the sorts of things that guarantee a leopard gecko will freak out and can subsequently avoid those stimulus and approach them in a way that leaves the animal in something of a neutral state. Green iguanas, unfortunately for many people who obtain one without knowing this first, don't really have a neutral state.

Everything they encounter in nature can be handled by attacking it, running away from it or having sex with it, so that's what they respond to the entire world. They haven't got the conscious capability to realize that a person who feeds them every day is benign and well intentioned. They cannot conceptualize abstracts like trust or affability or bonds. There's no basis for any social behaviors that aren't territorial aggression or sex and even those only happen between iguanas. Everything else gets treated like a predator and smacked with a tail (across the eyes if they can manage it, those same preservation instincts provoke them to aim for the face whenever possible).

So trying to handle them in order to build trust is an impossible task and the only consequences of pushing it are negative for the animal in question. So yes, I do disagree and yes, it can hurt to try.


*only other iguanas "count" for dominance, some really asinine webpages will try to give you advice like "Headbob back at it and then beat it up so it knows you're the boss" and this kind of crap should be avoided as bad information.

**since they'd normally give a couple tail whips or a bite and successfully drive away whatever it is they are trying to drive away, or try to escape from a predator or rival that's not dissuaded by their aggression, or be eaten or killed in fairly short order

 

[leolover23]

Did I not say that you could try as long as there were no negative effects on the iguana? You make it seem like I'm suggesting he take out his pet and poke it until it loves him. Alas, that is not the case. Meerly I suggested that he spend more time with it to familiarize himself with the animal. And, like I said before it does not mean that it will work. But this poor kid is just trying to make someone else happy so that he can get a sweet pet of his own. So if he wants to try, why try and stop him? As I said, many times, as long as he doesn't stress the animal or hurt it, which I'm sure he's smart enough to figure out if he's doing either, what's the harm in trying? If everyone listened to what other people said, we'd still think the Earth was flat. Try the "impossible", reach for the stars. Just be careful and patient, and do whatever you want. Try the sock idea if you want, or don't. Try petting him a tiny bit every day. Or don't. It's up to you to make the intelligent decisions--don't think it's not possible if you haven't given it your all. No one can tell you how the iguana is going to respond to your attempts because we're not iguanas! As long as you and the iguana are safe, no harm done.

 

[T-ReXx]

I can disagree with that.

Reptile behavior is pure instinct. There is no sentience, no thought remotely like the internal monologue and conscious decisions we're capable of as big brained mammals.

Stimulus -> Response in patterns that are preprogrammed into them from the moment the zygote forms.

It is important to understand that instinctive is not identical to simple. As a generalization, reptiles are capable of seemingly complex behaviors at times as a direct result of having complex instinctive responses to reflect variables in the perceived stimulus. The response of a young animal won't be identical to that of an adult. The response during the day may not be identical to the response at night. The response to contact from above won't be identical to contact from below. When they last ate, the temperature and humidity, the barometric pressure, the amount of cover available for hiding, if the animal is male or female, if the animal is dominant in its territory* its recent diet, when it last defecated, it's height off the ground when contact is made, the UV intensity and countless, infinite variations that can subtly or not-so-subtly shift the resulting behavior.

Green iguanas however... they really only have a few options when another animal interacts with them when the green iguana is healthy and being kept in ideal environmental conditions. Fight it (predators, rivals, potentially dangerous non-predators), run away from it (predators, rivals that are winning, potentially dangerous non-predators), have sex with it (other iguanas of the opposite gender when the iguana in question has been cycled to breed- otherwise it's a rival for food and basking spots and territory).

The only way to see a response other than those three is when the iguana's health or the environmental conditions are such that it stops behaving like a green iguana. When it's lethargic from temperatures outside of the ideal range. When it's dehydrated or malnourished and fatigued as a result. When it is outright sick from illness or disease. When it is injured (and unable to respond aggressively with success). Negative conditions of some kind need to be imposed in order to push the individual animal away from the healthy, dominant responses of a strong animal and into a state where it simply doesn't respond, allowing itself to be casually handled.

What constantly trying can do is stress the crap out of the animal in question. Keep it out of the ideal conditions found in its enclosure and expose it to suboptimal and less controlled environmental conditions where it's being manhandled or pinned to prevent injury to the person doing it, expending energy in a futile attempt to attack or escape, building up lactic acid in it's muscles, prompting all kinds of chemical secretions associated with fight or flight responses and keeping it on edge and in a state of hightened physiological responses for far longer than their body is built to handle**

The only real, tangible positive change that potentially happens when a keeper handles a reptile with frequency is that the keeper learns to read the animal and learns the behavioral triggers of the species in question and subsequently (often subconsciously) modifies their approach, changing the stimulus experienced by the animal, thus sometimes changing the resulting behavioral response. The person learns things, often without realizing it. What they learn varies by species, since different species have different behavioral triggers. Examples though... some species respond badly when approached from above but are not provoked the same way if they are approached from the sides or lifted from below, some species behave very differently during the day than they do at night and the ambient lighting has a big impact on how they'll respond to being handled, some species are fairly easy to control when lifted or carried but respond in a pretty extreme manner when actively restrained... and so on.

That can apply, to a very small degree, when handling green iguanas. The keeper can learn a few things to avoid and a few approaches that work slightly better- but given the nature of the species and it's relatively narrow field of options (like with many arboreal species), this is of fairly minimal value. A keeper can pretty easily learn the sorts of things that guarantee a leopard gecko will freak out and can subsequently avoid those stimulus and approach them in a way that leaves the animal in something of a neutral state. Green iguanas, unfortunately for many people who obtain one without knowing this first, don't really have a neutral state.

Everything they encounter in nature can be handled by attacking it, running away from it or having sex with it, so that's what they respond to the entire world. They haven't got the conscious capability to realize that a person who feeds them every day is benign and well intentioned. They cannot conceptualize abstracts like trust or affability or bonds. There's no basis for any social behaviors that aren't territorial aggression or sex and even those only happen between iguanas. Everything else gets treated like a predator and smacked with a tail (across the eyes if they can manage it, those same preservation instincts provoke them to aim for the face whenever possible).

So trying to handle them in order to build trust is an impossible task and the only consequences of pushing it are negative for the animal in question. So yes, I do disagree and yes, it can hurt to try.


*only other iguanas "count" for dominance, some really asinine webpages will try to give you advice like "Headbob back at it and then beat it up so it knows you're the boss" and this kind of crap should be avoided as bad information.

**since they'd normally give a couple tail whips or a bite and successfully drive away whatever it is they are trying to drive away, or try to escape from a predator or rival that's not dissuaded by their aggression, or be eaten or killed in fairly short order

VERY well said. I can't do any better than that.

 

[leolover23]

Oh, and M_surinamensis, if green iguanas, who I assume are considerably smarter than leopard geckos, cannot realize that something is not trying to harm them, why can a leopard gecko make a distinction between friend and foe? It's a matter of agression, not understanding. Some animals are just more agressive, but it doesn't mean they don't have the capability to be friendlier.

 

[M_surinamensis]

So if he wants to try, why try and stop him?

Because it is inherently, to some degree, however minor or egregious the individual circumstances dictate, negative for the animal in question and inherently doomed to failure.

Can't work, best case scenario is that nothing changes, worst case the animal experiences negative effects. That is why I am trying to stop him.

That and it's best to be thorough and accurate when sharing information. I was pretty happy to leave the thread alone and let it sink into obscurity with no responses when I first saw it, then someone else came along and posted a bad link. I feel morally obligated to refute misinformation. Quickest way to get me into a discussion that I was ready to ignore is to write or say something wantonly incorrect.

No one can tell you how the iguana is going to respond to your attempts because we're not iguanas!

Sure I can, they are very predictable. All reptiles are, if one happens to understand their particular ecological niche and a few basic details about the way they respond to predators, prey and one another. Stop thinking of them as unique individuals with personalities, they aren't and trying to attribute such characteristics to them only fosters misunderstanding. Analyze them in as objective a manner as possible and the result is predictability.

Oh, and M_surinamensis, if green iguanas, who I assume are considerably smarter than leopard geckos, cannot realize that something is not trying to harm them, why can a leopard gecko make a distinction between friend and foe?

Green iguanas being smarter is a bit debatable, there are multiple ways of measuring an animal's intelligence and they're all only really useful within the confines of their own definitions. Green iguanas are diurnal, active and bigger- so some of their behaviors seem "smarter" simply because they have behaviors where a leopard gecko has no measurable response but neither species is really capable of comprehending abstracts, declarative problem solving or pattern recognition that is not tied in with a pre-existing instinctive response.


As to why a leopard gecko can "recognize friend from foe" put simply, it can't.
It just doesn't have a behavior set that favors hair trigger aggression or escape responses.

Relative to the physical capabilities of their natural predators, adult green iguanas can sometimes survive encounters by biting, whipping or dropping out of a tree, so that's how they respond to contact with things that are not other iguanas.

Relative to the physical capabilities of their natural predators, leopard geckos don't stand a chance if they try to fight back or run after contact. Their survival adaptations center on stealth, hide spots and a breeding strategy that makes them particularly prolific. They don't usually bite and only sometimes try to run because those behaviors are not something that has been successful for the species and they adapted away from it, to adopt very different survival strategies.

Some animals are just more agressive, but it doesn't mean they don't have the capability to be friendlier.

Yes, it does. "Friendlier" is the wrong word to use when discussing animal behavior, at least in a technical sense and when looking at reptiles (it could apply, albeit a bit poorly, to some mammals and birds, where herd, pack and flock mentalities kick in). Even if you meant that they have a capability to be less aggressive, that is only situationally accurate, in species where there's room for a neutral response.

Arboreal reptiles do not have that kind of room. Contact with other animals is infrequent and has a very narrow range of appropriate responses, the environment of living in a tree tends to hone responses to a razor edge of appropriate options and neutrality and docility have very low survival values. Some small species can experience success with the stealth and hide behaviors, fleeing or hiding from dangers. After a certain size, or when coupled with territorial harem breeding strategies or when the arboreal species is itself a predator of something other than insects, the behavior models all shift towards a certain inevitable degree of aggression.

 

[leolover23]

1.) You cannot, you simply cannot determine the response to the situation. It's impossible. You can guess, and maybe, maybe you'll be correct. Most likely, right? But did anyone think the Wright brothers could fly? Did anyone think the Earth was round? No. But that didn't mean it wasn't true. And it didn't mean people should have tried. By trying, they accomplished so much. Think of that, just on a smaller scale.

2.) So, you're worried that by trying to get the iguana to act more docile, it will have negative effects on his health? Well. Don't you think keeping it in a cage with a fake diet affects it as well? Don't you think the noise the people around it make, the smells and sights and environment, also have affects? And don't you think that in the wild, they would come into contact with things that the iguana might think of as disturbing? So why is it so wrong, as long as you are not deliberately harming it or causing it unusual amounts of stress, to try and "tame" it? Would you rather have it given to someone else? Rob a child of their pet? Or have it living in neglect, with people too scared to approach it?

3.) You say a leopard gecko can't recognize friend from foe. So then why does my gecko recognize my voice? Why is she not as afraid of me as she is other people? Why, in general, is she not really afraid of people? It's because I made sure that she had enough contact with me to become familiar with me. And sometimes, after prolonged spells of not interacting with her, she did become more jumpy around me. But, as I spent more time with her, she thought more of me as a "friend", not a threat, and allowed me to touch her more.

Nothing. Is. Impossible. Simple as that. Not saying the "impossible" is the probable. But, who knows? Only God does.

 

[M_surinamensis]

1.) You cannot, you simply cannot determine the response to the situation. It's impossible. You can guess, and maybe, maybe you'll be correct. Most likely, right?

The response of an iguana to a stimulus? If a person manages to accurately account for all the significant variables in the environment and the condition of the animal, sure they can. Mistakes in those predictions are a result of failing to account for or recognize one or more of those variables.

But did anyone think the Wright brothers could fly? Did anyone think the Earth was round? No. But that didn't mean it wasn't true. And it didn't mean people should have tried. By trying, they accomplished so much. Think of that, just on a smaller scale.

Are you trying to refute the idea of mathematical absolutes applying to complex scenarios or are you just trying to inject a bunch of unrelated sentimental rubbish to derail the information being presented?

2.) So, you're worried that by trying to get the iguana to act more docile, it will have negative effects on his health?

Essentially.

There is a potential inherent in "handle it more!" for negative repercussions. It's stressful, it's removing the animal from the controlled environment of it's enclosure and exposing it to conditions that are outside of those which are ideal for maintaining it's health and it introduces additional opportunity for human error. These are tangible possibilities that have a moderate to high probability of occurring.

There is no potential benefit. If the animal is healthy, it will not be docile. The intended goal of the handling is not a result that is simultaneously possible while adhering the far larger responsibility of maintaining the animal in the most optimal manner. They are mutually exclusive.

It is a risk that is devoid of gain.

Well. Don't you think keeping it in a cage with a fake diet affects it as well? Don't you think the noise the people around it make, the smells and sights and environment, also have affects?

Quantifiable impact which can be managed and have the potential for beneficial results.

And don't you think that in the wild, they would come into contact with things that the iguana might think of as disturbing?

Only briefly and infrequently. One way or another such wild encounters are going to be over in a matter of, at most, a couple minutes. Generally within seconds.

That is a far different scenario than constant exposure to such stimulus or conditions for extended periods of time on a daily basis.

So why is it so wrong, as long as you are not deliberately harming it or causing it unusual amounts of stress, to try and "tame" it?

Because it won't -can't- work the way the original poster wants it to, or the way you seem to be telling him it might and the best case scenario is that it fails without appreciably harming the animal in question.

Furthermore it's wrong to encourage the attempt because in doing so you are supplying misinformation, confusion and ignorance. I am trying very hard to assume it's an honest naivety on your part, but I'd really prefer it if you stopped providing false hope and inaccurate nonsense while I try to casually educate someone on a subject.

Would you rather have it given to someone else? Rob a child of their pet?

If it's the wrong species for those particular people, yes. I would much rather have them find someone who is knowledgeable about green iguanas that has the space and experience to treat it like the display animal it should be. That is just responsible pet ownership.

I really like scrub pythons. They're beautiful and interesting and fascinating animals. I don't want to devote that much space in my house to keeping one animal and I don't want to have to call a friend over every time I need to clean the cage. The species, as great as they are as as much as I love them, has the potential to exceed the space, effort and behaviors that I want to deal with. I am unwilling or unable to give them the care which they require, so I do not own any scrub pythons.

The exact same mentality should apply to everyone, for every animal, every time. If a green iguana is a bad match for what this family wants out of their pet reptile (it is, more often than not) then they should not own a green iguana. They should not want to own a green iguana, no matter what appeal it might have on some other level.

Or have it living in neglect, with people too scared to approach it?

See above.

Also- it is going to be aggressive if it is healthy. Those are the options; aggressive or unhealthy. There is no "healthy and docile" option, it will not happen.

3.) You say a leopard gecko can't recognize friend from foe. So then why does my gecko recognize my voice? Why is she not as afraid of me as she is other people? Why, in general, is she not really afraid of people? It's because I made sure that she had enough contact with me to become familiar with me. And sometimes, after prolonged spells of not interacting with her, she did become more jumpy around me. But, as I spent more time with her, she thought more of me as a "friend", not a threat, and allowed me to touch her more.

You're applying inaccurate motivations and reasons to observed behaviors. Your analysis of your experience is flawed. You are assuming that the same elements which motivate human behavior apply to your gecko. They do not.

Nothing. Is. Impossible. Simple as that. Not saying the "impossible" is the probable. But, who knows? Only God does.

Is there any practical upside to introducing your religious bias into the conversation? I respect your right to choose whatever theological belief system you want but it contributes absolutely nothing to the conversation at hand. If you are going to start injecting statements like "Only God knows!" then I am simply going to stop responding to you. I'll explain and discuss and debate and you might come out of it with a bit of an education, but the second you start introducing the idea of unverifiable causes, I am done talking about the subject.

 

[leolover23]

You just love to argue, don't you?

--Okay, so now it's that iguanas cannot be healthy and docile. What about the previous statements about some having docile temperment? Do you completely trash the idea that there is NO WAY to be able to tap into that docile nature that some specimans exhibit? And by saying no, there is no way, then why are some docile? Wouldn't every single iguana in the world be doomed to agression? And you say it's because they are unhealthy. Why should that be the only reason? Many people have pet iguanas, and I'm sure if they were so nasty as you make them seem, not as many would be pets.

--As for the second time you quoted me, about the Wright brothers and the Earth being flat, not only did you insult me by calling it sentimental rubbish when you clearly did not understand my point, you made yourself look less pleasant. For one, I wasn't saying that he should go and fly planes and I wasn't trying to gain your sympathy. I was saying that somethimes, by challenging things, new things are discovered, new facts are made as the old ones are thrown out. I'm not saying that he has to change the world by taming an iguana. My point was that even if people don't believe in you, even if everyone is waiting for you to fail, it does not mean you're going to. Maybe, someday, you'll just surprise them.

--On to your third quote. I did suggest contact, but maybe that wouldn't be the best. But, if you read what I have previously suggested, I told him of a non-contact way that might get the iguana more used to him--the sock trick. Maybe it'll work, maybe it won't. But you can't tell me that a sock with his scent on it will have drastic effects on the iguana. And, if it starts to look like the iguana is stressing, he's smart enough to know when to call it quits. You're giving him too little credit. I'm sure he would never harm this animal, as he sounds like an animal lover himself.

--Fourth and fifth quoted sections. I'm sure there are instances where an iguana is exposed to many disturbing, even life-threatening instances in the natural world. Their world is much more violent then ours, and the animals are under constant stress and fear--much more then the owner would probably give him. And, like I said, so many times, if the animal is too frightened or unhappy, he'll know when to stop. You say mammals, like dogs, do not relate to this, but they do. All animals do. If you're going towards an agressive dog, you can tell by it's movement whether or not to procede with the action.

--Sixth. I'm not trying to provide misinformation. I'm trying to have you see, and him see, that no facts are final. To learn about his animal (isn't that what you suggested earlier?), and to know what's best for him--by finding out for himself. Because what if you're right? Then that will solidify what you are saying. But what if you're wrong? Then it will be providing some hope to others out there, and provide this kid with a new pet. Just showing him his options. There are some consequences to both options. One, he goes to far (which, I must repeat, is NOT what I am suggesting. He is meerly testing boundaries, knowing when to back off, learning his animal) and the animal gets sick or stressed. Or two, he does nothing. The iguana stays agressive, bites his family, he has an unwanted pet. And maybe, or maybe not, he gets a new leo.

--7th. Well, it sounds good for an expert to have this pet. But who says that an expert iguana-keeper will recieve it? You never know if someone else will take this animal, maybe mistreat it, maybe make it sick. Isn't that what you're trying to avoid? Plus, if he's gone this far, trying to figure out how to tame this animal, doesn't it seem reasonable that the family really wants to keep it? To help it? And to interact with it, if at all possible?

--8th. See above and first.

--Ninth.

--If my observations of my own leo are flawed, then why does the same thing continue to happen? Why does she know my voice? And my taste/smell? Why does she trust me to take food from my hand? It's because she is familiar with me. She's comfortable. And you can't analyze someone else's pet's behavior because you are neither them, nor their pet, nor there to see how the pet/person behaves.

--And this is where you get out of line. For one, I wrote that because it felt right for me to say, as it is what I believe. Just as you can say what you want, and I may not like it, especially your snide comments, I accept it. It's unreasonable to say it is unverifiable, because it is something that I believe can be verified. And maybe you don't like it, but that was part of my point--no one knows the outcome of anything, whether you believe in God or not. You can guess, you can be so sure, but the fact of the matter is, you can never, ever, truly know.

 

[fuzzylogix]

k, i need to break out a thesaurus... but i have experienced the so called "tame" iguana recently myself. i recently rescued a juvenile female iguana from someone's garage in downtown dallas. she was emaciated, cold, and dehydrated. but completely easily handled due to lethargy. i've had her about two months and she is about 2 foot long, parasite free, putting on weight, and a beautiful bright green now. she is in an 8 foot tall by 4 foot deep by 6 foot wide enclosure, constant fogger providing humidity, live and synthetic plants that are very lush, and plenty of UVB exposure from her lights or from outside time. all in all i would say she is doing very well, but she cannot be handled now. at first i was hand feeding her and she would come to the cage door and walk out on my arm to get her veggies. now that she's back to the proper weight, has the right heat and humidity, and is in an environment that replicates as closely as i can her natural habitat, i have realized that she is a wild animal. now i keep and maintain almost 80 reptiles total, and most of mine that aren't leos were rescues or adoptions. she is by far the most difficult to handle. and she's still considered a "baby" at 2 foot long. the truth of the matter is even the most "so called" tame reptile of that size can do some serious damage to you if they decide they want to. look how long we have "domesticated" dogs as pets, and yet you still hear stories of the family dog snapping one day and attacking his/her owner completely unwarranted. now it is true that some of the people that you see with iguanas seem like they have tamed them, and that they have no problems. but sit down with a true iguana owner, that has a large adult, and you will hear the stories of the aggressiveness and the stubborness of these animals. these animals are not for everyone. they need a TON of space and preferably a large outdoor enclosure that is at minimum 10 ft tall, 10 ft wide, and 10 ft long. the problem is that everyone sees the little iggies at the pet store for 20 dollars and think they are responsible pet owners by buying a 20 gallon tank with some incandescent lights and trying to feed them crickets. when they get sick , they end up in reptile rescues or worse, set free to fend for themselves. i think the moral of this whole discussion is make sure that this is the right animal for you. do yourself and the animal justice by researching the species before impulse buying any animal at all. know what to expect from a healthy adult animal before buying that cute baby next time. as far as "verde" my female iggy, she will stay with me and have as little stress placed on her as possible, unless i find her an experienced and responsible owner. im not acting as her owner and do not plan on having her sit on my shoulder and eat bananas out of my hands while on a leash. i just want her to have a large comfortable place to call home and live a healthy life without worry of being abandoned again.