Small Pet Feeders - Am i in the wrong?

[Small Pet Feeders]

Whatever the outcome of this, I agree with previous posters that both sides are understandable and both sides made mistakes in the deal. Dennis was looking for the cheapest possible shipping method, and I should have had tracking included somehow. Either way, Dennis, if you truly didn't receive your packages, I'm sorry. If you did receive them, I hope the $70 you'll get soon will make you feel good inside.

No need to hash this out any further, as orchidslave said, at this point, we're both losing face by bickering aimlessly, and pointlessly honestly.

-Dave
SPF

 

[im faster]

This entire situation is very unprofessional. Both businesses are going to lose in this ordeal. Weather and holidays must be taken into account when ordering anything live, whether its bugs or lizards. Who is responsible in the case of any shipper delays? Ultimately it falls to the seller to handle any potential threats to their stock. There should never be a situation where a business is willing to overlook solid shipping methods. For instance, say you want to sell a gecko but the buyer says its okay to do priority mail at $5.20 instead of your standard overnight of $50, and you agree in order to save them $$ and make the sale. The animal arrives dead. So who is responsible? Altho this isn't the same situation, it's similar enough. It wasn't shipped correctly. After the loss of order #1, why not be certain order #2 is secure from the same fate and the customer ends up happy..........

Neither one of you are smelling like a rose right now.

I did request a Tracking number for the 2nd package and was told that it wasn't possible for me to get one.

I should have just asked for a refund there.. but I realize now that was a awful idea on my part.

 

[JeepFreak81]

The entire situation and the conversations that resulted unfortunetly leave both parties with mud on thier face and leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth about both businesses

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk

 

[im faster]

The entire situation and the conversations that resulted unfortunetly leave both parties with mud on thier face and leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth about both businesses

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk

If you dont mind me asking what part about this leaves a bad taste in your mouth about my company?(Thats why i made this)

I never got any my order and he tries to blame it on me. then twists everything to make it seem like he isnt at fault.

If you were in my position. and have been waiting over 3 weeks for a order of crickets that are were said to have been shipped what would you do?

I haven't been in the business for ever. ive never had to deal with this. in your opinion what would you have done differently?


(I am seriously asking this question not trying to be a smart ass here.)

 

[Landen]

wow... way to hash this one out professionally boys.... good luck to both of you! :main_no:

Watching this thread reminds me why the reptile hobby is sometime more trouble than it's worth....:main_thumbsdown:

 

[animeavatar]

Why can't we edit? I'd rather just edit and put my full name than start a new post
Connie Lam

 

[JeepFreak81]

wow... way to hash this one out professionally boys.... good luck to both of you! :main_no:

This kind of says what I was saying about leaving a bad taste in my mouth. Not to say I think either company is horrible just that the way this situation has been panning out would make me think twice about doing business with either party. Best of luck to both of you and hopefully all works out one way or another.

 

[Russ S]

From this point forward, any posts not containing FULL NAMES will be given an infraction.
Don't try to say you weren't warned.

 

[JeepFreak81]

Was going to edit my post to include my name, but obviously can't do that. I guess this is to provide some accountability though I don't see what keeps somebody from using a made up name

~Jason Brooks (not made up)

 

[Dimidiata]

Id recommend just putting it in your Sig. I believe that counts. Oy, every time one of you trys to stop arguing you always lash out at someone Else's opinion. This is pointless beyond reason and if you cant just leave the thread without any more words then why bother. Is it about having the last word? Insuring that thy enemy shall fall beneath you? Get over, this is getting immature, and please, dont quote this and then try to justify your side of the argument.

 

[animeavatar]

Yes. We want world peace don't we? So how about starting peace right here in this thread?

 

[animeavatar]

Whoops
Connie Lam

 

[katie_]

Full names of the business', or in people posting?
Katie Carr.

 

[fl_orchidslave]

"Business Inquries and Reports This forum is here for you to post your good and bad experiences with a breeder or dealer, and also to inquire about a particular business that you are considering doing business with. Please read the TOS in this forum before posting here." Quoted from the top of this page.

There are rules for posting in this section for good reason. A reputation can be made or destroyed here. To be allowed to post here you are held accountable by your words and name. It can be in your signature, info under your avatar, or you can type it in every time you post. But it must be on every post as the mods have warned.

 

[M_surinamensis]

Most people already know, but for those who don't and in order to comply with the rules for posting in this subsection of this forum; my name is Seamus Haley.

Dennis, I'm going to address you first because I've had something to say since reading the post that started the thread. You inquired about mistakes and about being in the wrong, I noticed one thing that didn't sit well with me initially. The fact that you instigated a Paypal dispute struck me as a questionable choice. Not because I distrust the veracity and honesty of the events as you relayed them; simply because instigating a dispute is a unilateral action that should be reserved as an absolute last resort after making good faith attempts to communicate and work with the other involved party. Paypal is somewhat notorious for the way that a person or business can have their account locked down HARD while there is an open dispute, preventing them from conducting business until it is resolved. It is not that you should never instigate a dispute, just that it should be the very last step you take, when you have exhausted all other avenues of seeking proper compensation.

Some of the back and forth has been a bit emotional and ill advised, but that happens when two people find themselves questioning one another's credibility and honesty. Each feels righteous, each feels slighted- ugly things happen. This was comparatively mild, not that I'd suggest anyone seek escalation.

Dave, I get the impression that your business is comparatively new. Feel free to correct me if that's wrong. I've just got a bit of generalized advice and some open ended comments for you, take them or leave them as you see fit. If you remain in business, you will eventually be ripped off, but I don't think this is that. Far more common than deception and thievery will be simple errors and mistakes. It sounds like you have come to recognize the value of having tracking information available to you so that you can be more fully aware of the details of a customer's dissatisfaction. Shipping errors of various kinds are not as uncommon as those who rely on the services to run their businesses would find ideal. Packages can be misplaced, delayed, waylaid, damaged, stolen, sent to an incorrect address and just about anything else you can think of as potentially going wrong... and given the somewhat monolithic nature of the biggest shipping companies, culpability can sometimes be difficult to pin down. This is especially true of the USPS, for a variety of reasons.

While it is impressive to learn that an established business has never had a transaction go sideways or turn bad on them, I have always been far more comfortable dealing with someone who has had problems and who subsequently dealt with them in a reasonable and considered manner.

As a potential consumer, I'm not too bothered by the idea that a shipping service might eat my package* because that's just an unfortunate and unpredictable reality when shipping any product, especially live animals. I am bothered by the idea of having something go wrong and having the person I had given my money to turn around and call me a liar and a thief without giving due consideration to all the possibilities. What is most probable here is that there was some error that has prevented those shipments from arriving. Your supplier (that is drop-shipping), or the delivery company are the most likely culprits given the archaic record keeping involved. That is your difficulty to investigate; but your customer didn't pay your supplier or your delivery subcontractor. They paid you, making you responsible for satisfying your promise to provide goods and services.

It's possible that Dennis is trying to scam you for seventy dollars worth of crickets, but it is not very likely. While neither of you has exactly covered yourselves in glory here, as he is your customer in this scenario, you have a greater burden of responsibility to maintain a sense of professionalism. My suggestion, should you be inclined to take it, is to issue a sincere apology to him for the trouble and to then work with him to seek the cause of these shipping issues. Two points is a line, not a pattern, but there's no sense sending any more shipments until the root of the problem has been discovered and addressed. Verify and re-verify the shipping information, pay particular attention to small details that may have caused a shipping SNAFU (one wrong digit in the postal code, distinctions between Street, Lane and Ave and so forth), follow up with your supplier to the degree that they are capable of providing information, recheck to ensure labeling requirements are being met and postal codes adhered to, try following up with the local post offices at the point of departure and the one that they should have been delivered from... in short, find it and fix it; then give the man his crickets or his money back.

Dennis, have some patience while the process is ongoing, should Dave be inclined to try to make things right. While a Paypal dispute is your weapon of last resort, it never looks good when you instigate one until it is the ONLY avenue left to you... and frankly a BOI thread over on Fauna, should he refuse to work with you or try to keep your money after the dispute period has ended will lose him substantially more than seventy dollars in sales. If either of you has actually been stolen from (by design, or through poorly thought out decisions on how to handle the problem) then there are ways to make sure it never happens again.


*I actually know of at least one incident where a delivery driver destroyed a package and killed some animals, because they had a hatred/phobia of the species being shipped. It took almost a month and a half for the shipping company to investigate and verify that this was the case, taking (undisclosed in the details) disciplinary action against the driver and settling a claim with the shipper.

Oh and... I honestly haven't taken the time to read through the specific rules for this subforum, but the anonymous "people sent me private messages and they say you're no good" is just plain dirty pool. Either provide names and exact quotes, or don't mention it at all. Transparency and verifiable information is the name of the game with business disputes, reputations do matter, but anonymous condemnations are devoid of credibility.

 

[Wild West Reptile]

Holy cow! 8 pages of crazy name calling and bickering over a lost order of crickets! Not that my opinion matters, but this should of and could have been handled way better by both parties. I believe someone touched on it earlier, but this is why dealing in this hobby of ours is hardly worth the time. If this is what happens over a $70 order of crickets, imagine if a $30,000 ball python got lost! Now that would be worth freaking out over! It's a shame that it had to come to this. Sometimes trying to save a few dollars isn't the best way to go when it involves shipping live animals or feeders. Just my humble opinion.

And for the record, I'm not siding with one party or the other. I can see both sides and who really knows what happened, but to go this far over such a trivial amount of money seems pretty silly. Maybe I'm wrong, who knows……..?

 

[Small Pet Feeders]

I'm afraid any lines of communication between Mr. Blankenship and I are irrevocably severed and all bridges burned to ash. I know a good deal of you don't understand my position fully, as a good portion of you can sympathize with the "Customer" end of the argument, which is only natural as we flock to the side we most relate with. And due to this, any "compromise" I've read here has always been giving Dennis his money back for two shipments he very likely received. Doesn't sound very much like a "compromise" to me frankly...

What's just hugely frustrating to me is whenever I disclose the whole story to people, including the Paypal representative I spoke with today on this matter who will be investigating Mr. Blankenship's account history, they find Mr. Blankenship's actions and words to be just as suspicious as I do. Now can I ever prove that the crickets were shipped? Besides email correspondence with my farm, no I can't. Can I say that Dennis is the only one who's package has gone "lost" twice in a row? Yes I can. And should he have received these packages, would all of you be so quick to come to his defense? What if you're now patronizing the man that is getting ripped off for a measly $70 order of crickets by a person with a history in mislabeling products? All I know is my trustworthiness is never questioned, as I'm not a thief, and I come from a family with very low tolerance for thieves.

Now should he wish to continue this unpleasant mess of a deal on another site, we can have another mud-slinging fest and we can both get all dirty all over again, which I have no doubt that he will make the attempt. All I can hope is that that thread he creates on the BOI forums on FaunaClassifieds drums up as much business as this one did from the people who do see my side of this argument. To all of those this applies to, thank you for your help and support, as even silent support makes me feel like I'm not alone in my suspicions.

I appreciate everyone's input on this, and I think there were a lot of valid points. I learned to never trust someone in search of cutthroat deals, as a lot of them will cut your throat the first chance they get, as Mr. Blankenship has. Honestly, as my momma always said, if someone scams you for $70, it's money well spent to get rid of them.

And Surinamisis, yes, we are a relatively new business name, but I used to run a small business named Georgia Bugs. We never had an issue with a client not receiving the same order TWICE. NEVER. Sure, packages arrive dead at times, and every once in a while one gets lost, especially by USPS, but never lost twice in a row. And there's a reason for that, the odds are drastically unlikely for it to happen, especially on that size of an order. And I did forward the messages I received that outlined Mr. Blankenship's dubious history to Kelli, the forum administrator, and out of courtesy to the people who voiced those words I won't name their names, but many have posted in this thread.

I really think everything has been said, divulged, drug through the mud face down, and pissed clean again, so I'm really just ready to move on from this. I made around $10 on Mr. Blankenship by giving him the discounts I gave him, and now I learned why you don't deal with someone in search of cutthroat rates, it never turns out good in the end it seems.

And you're right, his Dispute incited me and continues to paralyze my business. I just got back from depositing $100 to cover the overdraft fees that hit my account after Mr. Blankenship pulled his $70 back, so yeah I'm a bit livid. And I know none of you care, but it really hurts when you have such faith in people and then something like this happens. It makes it hard to see the good in everyone...that's for sure.

I just wish this could have been avoided. And it will be in the future, that I can promise you, as it cost me $70 to learn such a lesson. Good day everyone, blessed week to all of you.

-Dave

 

[M_surinamensis]

I know a good deal of you don't understand my position fully, as a good portion of you can sympathize with the "Customer" end of the argument, which is only natural as we flock to the side we most relate with.

For whatever it might be worth, my predispositions tend to lie in the other direction. It has been about a decade since I was personally involved in any animal related businesses, but many of my friends are breeders, suppliers, dealers and other such professionals. Customers can frequently be ignorant, demanding and monumental pains in the ass.

I just disagree emphatically with your judgment of what is probable and improbable in this scenario. My experience tells me that shipping issues will be far and away the most likely culprit behind a customer reporting an order undelivered. It is regrettable, but the knowledge, the subjective interpretations of regulations and the prejudices of every person who handles a package like a live insect shipment comes into play as a possible deleterious influence. They expose them to inappropriate conditions, the crickets die, the package smells, it gets destroyed... and the shipper doesn't hear about it unless they open a dispute (requires a tracking number) or eight weeks later when (if) the USPS gets around to sending a notification letter. Someone, somewhere has a single digit of the address written down incorrectly and the package just disappears, never to be seen again. You yourself even commented on the inefficiency of your supplier's shipping methods and record keeping; there are just so many possibilities (some of which are likely culprits) that it seems disingenuous to so steadfastly adhere to the singular notion that the customer is attempting something deceptive.

If you're inclined to read through Fauna's BOI, check out a man named Dan Scolaro. His first response to any problem was also to blame his customer and accuse them of dishonesty. You really don't want to follow in his footsteps.

At any rate; I sincerely wish you luck in trying to track down the source of the issues. I'd still suggest carefully checking as many of the potential sources of information as possible; if something is going wrong, it's always best to be definite about exactly what happened so that it can be avoided in the future. Miscommunication, shipping errors or definitive evidence of attempted fraud. Proof can protect you from Paypal, from the BBB and the BOI; and it really does look good to other potential customers when they see that you're inclined to engage in due diligence before arriving at a conclusion.

-Seamus Haley

 

[Small Pet Feeders]

I've never ever ever ever accused a client of being dishonest. Until Dennis. I know you don't agree with me, and that is fine, you're entitled to your honest opinion. However I can say with the utmost certainty that Dennis has been untruthful in the past with me, whether it had been with this shipment incident, or lying to me about what he got crickets for locally or through another company, as we both know if you are that worried about the price of an item instead of the quality of the item, you'll always go for the lowest price first.

Now while absolutely, it is possible that the order did get destroyed in transit TWICE on the same order, even when it's never happened with a single other order shipped out by the same farm, especially twice. But when a man shows me he's untrustworthy on one thing, it's only natural for me to think that he is being untruthful in other places. That's not such a radical view, is it?

 

[fl_orchidslave]

For what it's worth, I don't think either parties handled the situation correctly and are both in the wrong. However, it's always the business that has to suck it up to protect their reputation. Allow me to present a couple of examples, one a live shipment and the other a product order. Right before Christmas (Dec 15) I ordered live harvester ants from a place I know I can get from in the winter. There was no delay in shipping but the package was damaged and delivered in a USPS oops bag with ants visibly crawling all over inside the bag. Who knows how many escaped... I did not contact the company asking for any kind of refund due to them not properly securing the deli cup inside thus allowing ants to escape. It was Christmas and I was just glad to be able to get them in a reasonable time. My next order had a place to leave a note to them, so I asked to have the deli packed more securely as the previous order had been delivered in the oops bag. The company took it upon themselves to refund my payment immediately upon receiving the new order. They didn't have to do this, I never asked for any adjustments even. Recently I ordered a new banner to use at shows. Upon completing the order, I saw they had charged me for 2 graphic uploads when I was only using 1. I sent an email right away asking for a refund of $3.49, the cost of 1 upload. In less than 30 minutes, they responded and refunded my paypal account. Both are examples of excellent customer service, which is what every business should strive to provide.

I believe you both are telling the truth about what went down, but the way it all has been handled looks bad on both of your businesses. Your personal comments directed at each their have been very unprofessional and downright distasteful in the eyes of many potential future customers. As a small scale breeder, I would never allow my reputation to be drug thru the mud as this thread has done to you both.